Hi All, I have found some interesting footage on the British Pathe site which shows a RAF typhoon on an ALG in Normandy. The Pathe film ID No is 1979.14 and is located here. The typhoon seems to have some kind of engine trouble as indicated by the hive of activity shown in the following stills from the footage: Because of his presence in almost all the shots, I take this guy to be the pilot of the troublesome 'MR-K' aircraft. Note he has the shoulder rank badge of a Flying Officer: . Lets call him F/O 'A' for the purposes of this thread. As per official RAF policy, the squadron code letters 'MR' were used by several different squadrons in order to confuse the enemy. The three I have found were: No. 97 Sqd No. 186 sqd No. 245 sqd No. 97 Squadron was a heavy bomber squadron equipped with Lancasters and so can obviously be ruled out here. No. 186 Squadron was equipped with Typhoons but these seem to have been replaced by Spitfire VBs during the time frame we are looking at here. This leaves No. 245 (Northern Rhodesian) Squadron as the only possibility in my view. I downloaded No. 245 Squadron's ORB (both forms 540 'Summary' and 541 'Record') for June and July 1944 from the UK National Archives Squadron Operations Record Books page here. Below is an extract from the Form 540 (Summary) for the 10th June: The F/O 'A' does indeed seem to have attracted the attention of 'high officers' as can be seen in the still below: I wonder are we looking at F/O Smith as marked 'A'? I have tried to locate a photograph of this pilot but have failed in my efforts to date. Does anyone know if the Squadron has a present day association? The location as described in the ORB extract refers to the "A.L.G at Banville", which I take to be one and the same as ALG B-3 Sainte Croix sur Mer. This would tie in well with the presence of spitfires marked 'Y2' making them aircraft of No. 442 (RCAF) Squadron, 144 (RCAF) Wing, 2nd TAF, which was indeed based at B-3 Sainte Croix sur Mer during this period: The footage then moves onto a new pilot as marked 'E' here. I am not sure but he looks to be a Wing Commander: The strain of combat is clearly visible on his face in this unguarded moment below: Again, I am not sure, but it looks like the officer marked 'F' might hold the rank of Squadron Leader. The officer marked 'G' looks to be an Army major. I'd like to think that pilot 'E' is the famous ace, Wing Commander James "Johnnie" Johnson, the then C.O. of No. 144 Wing, but I don't think he is; in any event, I may not have ID'ed the shoulder rank badge correctly. Another interesting couple of seconds footage shows the tail of a fighter with the aircraft ID number '819' on the rear fuselage: I am pretty sure this is a spitfire tail and not that of a typhoon - note the rudder overhangs the vertical stabiliser on the top. When I first glanced at the still though, I thought it might be the typhoon of No. 245 Squadron's C.O., Squadron Leader "Jack" Collins marked 'MR-?' as seen on several modelling sites such as this one. I was glad when the penny dropped and I saw that it was just a spitfire with a coincidental ID number. Can anyone confirm this take and put my mind at rest? Moving onto the final visitor in the footage. This one is a USAAF mustang marked 'Whistler's Wings' and was very easy to track down: The pilot is Lt. Frederick S Rutan Jr., Wallaston MA, 504th Fighter Squadron. P-51C 42-103394 5Q-R/ “Whistler’s Wings” as shown in the photograph on this page from the 'Little Friends' site. The officer seen talking to Lt. Rutan seems to be an RAF man but again I am not sure of the rank. I don't think it's the then Air Vice Marshall Harry Broadhurst for whom the photographers were waiting and who F/O W. Smith gate crashed the party Any help with the blanks would be hugely appreciated and, as always, comments and corrections are also very welcome. Regards, Pat
Hi All, One down Found F/O Smith on page 61 of my PDF copy of Chris Thomas's 'Typhoon Wings of the 2nd TAF 1943-45'. As I have only just purchased the ebook, there may be more on the 'wanted list' therein. Really getting to like these ebooks - if only the guy in the red suit would bring me an ebook reader life would be perfect :angel: Regards, Pat
Hi Pat Nice research - As you can see by this link to my friend Dave Clarks website http://www3.sympatico.ca/angels_eight/alg.html that several wings were resident on B.3 (B.3 -- St. Croix-sur-Mer -- 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh completed 10 June. Runway 230. (144 Wing (441, 442, 443), 35 Recce Wing (2, 268), 136 Wing (263) and 146 Wing (193, 197, 257, 266)) so the WingCo, who is not JEJ, could be from any of them. Also, remember, that at that time both the WingCo Flying and the Airfield Commander were both of Wing Commander rank - the change to a Group Captain as an Airfield Commander did not come in until 14 July '44 - 144 Wing then being disbanded and the 3 constituent squadrons being dispersed to 125 RAF/126 RCAF/127 RCAF Wings, bringing them up to 4 squadron Wing strength. Dave lost his brother in an air collision with the WingCo Flying of 127 Wing RCAF (W/C Lloyd Chadburn) on 13 June 1944 so others might find his website, and book, of great interest as Dave has done very extensive research for both the site and book. http://www3.sympatico.ca/angels_eight/ cheers Allan
Thanks Alan, I have downloaded No. 442 Squadron's ORB for June and am going through it tonight. These are the Spits marked 'Y2' in the footage. Does Dave know the location of his brother's crash site? Also, just to clarify, can you confirm that the officer marked 'E' is a Wing Commander? Regards, Pat
Hi Pat Dave has done extensive research on this brothers crash site - see http://www3.sympatico.ca/angels_eight/site.html - but if you have anything to add Dave would be very pleased to know. Back to the "WingCo" - I enlarged the picture until the pixels squeaked and it definitely looks like the three stripes of a Wing Commander (Note - I cannot see a "Canada" flash on his upper shoulder, so presume RAF) By the way - with regard to the MR code - 97 Squadron changed from MR to OF at outbreak of war in September 1939. 245 Squadron had been DX from October 1939 until June 1941, then they changed to MR. 186 Squadron had MR allocated for the period April to September 1939, they then reformed on 27 April 1943 with code AP - and were disbanded 5 April 1944 to become 130 (Punjab) Squadron, still retaining AP - which then became part of 125 Wing by September 1944, with the Spitfire XIV. The original 130, formed June 1941, had been disbanded (PJ code) on 13 February 1944, and then reformed by renumbering 186 Squadron on 5 April 1944 (don't ask me why though!!) - source: Flying Units of the RAF - Alan Lake. I will pass the information on to Dave to see if he has any idea about the activities at B.3 Allan
Hi Pat One suggestion I have received is Donald Currie Laubman DFC and Bar (RCAF J14013) of 412 Squadron - and it certainly could have been him in http://acesofww2.com/Canada/aces/laubman.htm - however, he never rose higher than S/Leader in wartime (later Lt/General) and it certainly looks like a WingCo's stripes on the shoulder of our mystery man!! However, most likely is W/C Hughie Godefroy RCAF - which has come in from Dave Clark, who extensively writes: I’m quite sure I have the answer. The Wing Commander in photos 374, 385 and 397 is W/C Hughie Constant Godefroy J3701. He replaced Johnnie Johnson as Wingco of 127 Wing (421 and 403 Squadrons) in June 1943 and was succeeded by W/C Lloyd Chadburn in May 1944. What puzzled me at first was, “What was he doing at B.3 St. Croix-sur-Mer within a week of D-Day?” The answer is in Aces High page 289, and I quote, “On May 1 (1944 when Chadburn replaced him) he was posted to the RCAF Overseas HQ in London on staff duties, but AVM Broadhurst gave him a roving commission to fly with any Wing in 2nd TAF and report on the tactics and flying personnel. He spent much of his time with Typhoon squadrons, attacking ground targets, but when Air Marshal Bredner, Chief of the RCAF HQ in London, discovered that he had baled out in the Channel, he recalled Godefroy and sent him home in August to attend the War Staff College in Toronto.” So there is the answer. He must have virtually been working for Broadhurst and flew over to B.3 to greet him. Next question: what was the date? My notes say that Johnnie Johnson landed 144 Squadron at B.3 on June 10, (ref: Angels Eight page 207), so if Broadhurst wanted to be the first one in, the photo must have been taken earlier that day, or possibly the day before. The army major is most probably the Air Liaison Officer attached to one of the wings to co-ordinate RAF/Army operations - 125 Wing had a Captain D R Griffin as A.L.O. at one stage, and I have a photo of him at B.82 Grave/Holland in a, no doubt, posed photo advising the erks as to what was happening at the time. cheers Allan
Thanks a million Alan, There is a group photo of three officers about ¾ of the way down on this page and the man on the right is identified as Hugh Godfrey. He does indeed look to be one and the same as the Wing Commander marked 'E' in the British Pathe stills 374 and 385, albeit in far less stressful circumstances. Well done on tracking him down! I am pretty sure the date is the 10th June and the extract below from Form 540 of No. 442 Squadron's ORB seems to confirm a press presence on the ALG - while not identified in this document as such, there appears to be little doubt that B.3 is the location: I am very impressed at Dave's efforts to locate his brother's crash site. With his permission, I would very much like to open a new thread to see if matters can be advanced from where they presently stand on his page here. If this is OK with him, please let me know and we can work on the search either here in the public area of the Forum or in the closed 'Green Room'. Until reading more of Chris Thomas's 'Typhoon Wings of the 2nd TAF 1943-45' today, I had assumed, very wrongly, that the Typhoon pilots had it more or less all their own way during the Normandy Campaign. During the first day of the Invasion, Typhoon Wings had flown 400 sorties for the loss of eight aircraft and pilots. The next day, 7th June the loss figure had risen to 15 aircraft during 493 sorties. Things did not improve as time went on; during the month of August alone more than 90 Typhoons were lost. Apart from the very real and tangible cost to the German forces in terms of lost armor, destroyed radar sites and even individual senior officers killed during deliberate attacks on HQ areas, the additional gain from terrified tank crews actually abandoning their vehicles when these aircraft were sighted, must have added significantly to the overall victory in Normandy. It would appear from my reading that the very fact that the rockets fired from the Typhoons were in essence, inaccurate weapons, only seems to have added to the terror imposed on the enemy by these aircraft. Now that I have No. 245 Squadron's ORB to hand for June and July, it seems an opportune time to open a new thread to work through the twin documents and see if we can unearth anything of interest therein. Regards, Pat
align] I am very impressed at Dave's efforts to locate his brother's crash site. With his permission, I would very much like to open a new thread to see if matters can be advanced from where they presently stand on his page here. If this is OK with him, please let me know and we can work on the search either here in the public area of the Forum or in the closed 'Green Room'. Until reading more of Chris Thomas's 'Typhoon Wings of the 2nd TAF 1943-45' today, I had assumed, very wrongly, that the Typhoon pilots had it more or less all their own way during the Normandy Campaign. During the first day of the Invasion, Typhoon Wings had flown 400 sorties for the loss of eight aircraft and pilots. The next day, 7th June the loss figure had risen to 15 aircraft during 493 sorties. Things did not improve as time went on; during the month of August alone more than 90 Typhoons were lost. Apart from the very real and tangible cost to the German forces in terms of lost armor, destroyed radar sites and even individual senior officers killed during deliberate attacks on HQ areas, the additional gain from terrified tank crews actually abandoning their vehicles when these aircraft were sighted, must have added significantly to the overall victory in Normandy. It would appear from my reading that the very fact that the rockets fired from the Typhoons were in essence, inaccurate weapons, only seems to have added to the terror imposed on the enemy by these aircraft. Now that I have No. 245 Squadron's ORB to hand for June and July, it seems an opportune time to open a new thread to work through the twin documents and see if we can unearth anything of interest therein. Regards, Pat [/quote] Hi Pat I will certainly drop a line to Dave ref. your very kind request about his brother - you might be interested in the Typhoon memorial at Noyers Bocage - During the 10-week battle 141 pilots were killed and 128 were taken out of the battle by engine failures, forced landings, pilots wounded and some became prisoners of war. http://www.johnwfrost.com/typhoon-memorial.htm and also http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?2351-Normandy-Typhoon-Pilots-Memorial regards Allan
Hi Pat Dave Clark has replied to your request: By all means. I would be delighted if anything more can come to light. Please let Pat Curran and his friends use anything they want from my web site. http://www3.sympatico.ca/angels_eight/ I can personally recommend both the website and Dave's book "Angels Eight" for its depth of research in to the activities of 127 Wing RCAF in Normandy. Take a look at "A close look at B.2", "The Normandy Campaign" and the "Spitfire cutaway" for some superb "movies"! Dave greatly aided me on my personal quest for 125 Wing RAF information, and his depth of knowledge and research is evident by the quick answer to our mystery WingCo. Allan
Thanks Allan, I have opened a new thread titled 'F/L Frank J. Clark Crash Site' in the closed 'Green Room' area of the Forum - don't want the metal detector brigade running around digging up these sites. You already have access to this area of the Forum and we will of course allow Dave access it also if he wants to follow our efforts. He will need to sign up for an account and then John can give him the necessary access level. Regards, Pat
Hi Stephen, First, you are very welcome to the Forum and I hope we can be of help with any research you may be undertaking. Following your post I googled Keith Hodson and discovered he flew under Paddy Finucane in 602 Squadron earlier in the War. At some point he became Wing Commander of 126 Wing - do you know if he held this rank by June of 1944? Thanks Stephen, Pat
Thanks, and glad to be aboard. Not sure how I missed this forum, but off the top of my head, he was W/C of No.126 Wing, RCAF, but not sure if he was also Wing Commander Flying or not during this time. I will check a few things when I get back to the ponderosa tonight.
Kevin Hodson was the airfield commander of 126 (RCAF) Airfield/Wing during the period August 1943 to mid-July 1944, then under a major 2TAF reorganisation Wings became 4 Squadron units, and the airfield commander became a Group Captain's role. At the same time 144 RCAF Wing was disbanded and the squadrons dispersed as follows: 441 RCAF Squadron to 125 Wing RAF 441 RCAF Squadron to 126 Wing RCAF 442 RCAF Squadron to 127 Wing RCAF Sectors also disappeared and Wings came under Group Control Centre control (Longbow 84 Group - Kenway 83 Group) OC's W/C J E Walker DFC** July 1943 - August 1943 W/C K L B Hodson DFC* August 1943 - July 1944 G/C G R McGregor OBE, DFC - July 1944 - (May 1945) Wing Commanders Flying: W/C B D Russell DFC July 1943 - Oct 1943 W/C R W McNair DSO, DFC October 1943 - April 1944 W/C G C Keefer DFC* April 1944 - July 1944 W/C B D Russell DSO, DFC* July 1944 - January 1945 W/C G W Northcott DSO, DFC* Jan 1945 - (May 1945) 125 Wing were lucky enough to gain W/C George Keefer in the same role in November 1944, as he was put in place to replace W/C John Wray sent to 122 Wing to replace the shot down W/C "Roly" Beamont in October 1944 - all out of our time period though !! regards Allan
Hi Allan, Kevin? Yes, the reorg took place on July 13th. Also, can you please provide source or reference to the information posted? Thanks, Stephen
Hello Stephen My source is the series of books on the history of 2nd Tactical Air Force by Chris Shores & Chris Thomas, published in 4 volumes a few years back now, and the 125 Wing ORB for comments on what transpired for 125 Wing. 2TAF Volume 2 (Breakout to Bodenplatte) advises on 14 July of the various changes that had come in to effect that day In the case of 125 Wing - The airfield commander, W/C John Lapsley, advised at his 10.00 a.m. conference on 13 July that 15 Sector was being disbanded, and that the Wing would now come under Group Control Centre control. Then for 14 July it advises of the fact that W/C Lapsley was going home and would be replaced by Group Captain "Jamie" Rankin, and that W/C Johnsons Wing was being disbanded and that the Wing would get 441 Squadron - then it reported their arrival and that they were settling in. In case you don't already have them - The books give details of each Airfield/Wing from beginning to end (well May '45) as all not disbanded beforehand went past May '45 of course. My late father served on 125 Wing, finishing the european war at B.118 Celle, and moved to B.160 Kastrup/Copenhagen immediately post VE-Day, moving through the German lines (who were not too happy about it) and then he moved to 122 Wing when 125 Wing disbanded in July '45 and was promptly sent back to Denmark as they had replaced 125 Wing there when they came back to Germany in mid-June. When 122 Wing disbanded in turn in early September 1945 he was posted to Sylt, which was now part of BAFO, and then carried on his RAF service as he was a regular. I also have the original 1970 version of 2TAF - but the later versions have expanded on everything as more information has been released over the years I hold the complete ORB for 125 Airfield/Wing from June 1943 - July 1945, so if you require anything about them just ask. You might also be interested in the website of my friend - Dave Clark - Angels Eight concerning 127 RCAF Wing in Normandy. http://www3.sympatico.ca/angels_eight/ "This site is devoted to all those who flew in the Normandy Campaign -- 6 June 1944 through 28 August 1944 -- and particularly to one group of Canadian airmen, the pilots and ground crew of 127 Wing consisting of 403 Squadron, 416 Squadron, 421 Squadron and (after 14 July) 443 Squadron. In addition there is information regarding my two books "Angels Eight -- Normandy Air War Diary" and "Joe's Letters". And then there is some information regarding my brother F/L Frank Joel Clark, killed in an aerial collision while on patrol near Caen one week after D-Day" No doubt you are aware that F/L Clark collided with W/C Lloyd Chadburn the 127 Wing Leader, on 13 June, but this brings home the personal loss to Dave and also that of Barry, the son of Frank Clark. regards Allan
Thanks Allan, Yes, I am aware of the 2nd TAF related publications as I own many but in which publication is Keith listed as being a Kevin? The poor bugger was killed post war in a flying accident. I interviewed a pilot 442 once, for my 144 Wing project, and he told me that the skies over the beachhead and further inland was a like a busy intersection with so many planes at all different altitudes. He said you really had to be on your game. No easy task considering the job they had.
Hello Stephen Apologies - No idea why I typed Kevin as I have not seen anything on the web, and I don't know a Kevin either!! regards Allan