323rd BG Over Folligny Railway Yard

Discussion in 'Bomber' started by Pat Curran, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    Looking through the British Pathe footage in Film ID No. 2855.04 ('Invasion 1940-1944'), I came across a two separate sequences showing a Marauder strike on a rail target. The aircraft appear to be the 'white tails' of the 323rd BG with invasion stripes on the top surfaces. The date therefore must be sometime between the 6th and 25th June.

    The location took a while to track down but thanks to the distinctive Granville/Coutances rail junction, I finally found it last night at Folligny Railway Station and marshalling yard:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    This important rail centre lies between two major rail junctions - Granville/Coutances and Vire/Avranches. Due to it's strategic location, it was first bombed by the Germans in 1940 and is now undergoing another strike as captured in this footage sometime in June of 1944.

    I am going to deal with the shorter of the two sequences in this post, which runs for just nine seconds between time mark 4:51 and 5:00. Below is still No. 291 showing a stick of eight 500 pounders going down with their fuses clearly being run up to armed status:
    [​IMG]

    Still No. 294 below shows the aircraft to be on a south easterly course:
    [​IMG]

    The GE finder chart makes things clear:
    [​IMG]

    At first glance, the raid seems to be off target slightly, with many of the bombs missing the marshalling yard proper and impacting at the south east exit. Luckily, there is digitised NCAP cover flown on the 7th June which, to me at least, indicates what the real target was. Below is an extract from NCAP_ACIU_US7GR_1969_7004:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk

    The triangular shaped light toned area shows where two new sidings are under construction and still No. 300 shows the bombs impacting a few yards to the north east:
    [​IMG]

    On it's own, it is very difficult to geo-position this still due to the lack of clarity caused by the bombs exploding. Thankfully, frame 7004 rescued my sanity:
    [​IMG]

    Very likely these new sidings are being constructed to handle the V weapons destined for further road transport northwards. The area was even given it's own flak tower which stands to this day - see this GE 'street view' of the tower to the left of the white hoppers and the Bing Maps extract below clearly shows it's shadow:
    [​IMG]

    No sign of any flashes from the tower as the aircraft flies over, but these towers may have been fire control points rather than weapons positions. Anyone able to clarify?

    The second footage sequence I will deal with in the next post.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  2. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 25, 2012
    570
    9
    Male
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hi Pat,

    Although I do not have a list of all the missions or any details such as if it was Group or Squadron level mission, the 456th Bombardment squadron of the 323rd Bombardment Group did have a mission to Folligny on June 7th 1944.

    John
     
  3. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi John,

    I found the date of the German raid here - 17th June 1940, but cannot yet find a list of 323rd mission dates. You would think that with the B26 being so popular on the web that someone would have it :s

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  4. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    More on the 17th June 1940 raid here...

    Google Translator gives me this:

    The last paragraph, while not specific, appears to imply that the American raid was pre-invasion, but that cannot be - the Marauder in the second sequence definitely shows invasion stripes.

    The three storey house in the picture at the head of the article shows as a shell in the second BP sequence. It is one of the pair at the junction leading into the station from the eastern side.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  5. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    OK, this is more like it...

    2pm on the 7th June.

    I note with interest the term "The trains can not circulate" :dodgy:

    Does that mean that the 'Green Plan' guys disabled the turntable?

    This critical piece of railway hardware is seen due north of the flak tower on the 1947 IGN cover below:
    [​IMG]

    Just wondering about the exact translation - can any of our French members clarify?

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  6. Sean

    Sean Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    331
    2
    Male
    Battlefield guide
    Normandie
    Hello Pat and all,

    I think circuler might just mean "to run" in this case, rather than specifically "to turn". I'll let one of the native French speakers confirm or otherwise....

    There's a load of other stuff in Folligny, bunkers etc.
    I think the concensus is that the Flak tower was built to resemble a water tower and held a 2cm gun in the pit in the top.

    Here is a link to a 2010 article from the local paper la Manche Libre regarding plans to open up some of the site. Whether this actually happened or not, or continues, I don't know. For now...:)

    Cheers,

    Sean
     
  7. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Sean,

    Have you come across any accounts which might indicate this yard was used to deliver V weapons? I cannot access your link from work, so I'll have a look at it tonight. I do recall seeing photographs on Flickr of some proposed opening up of the site now that you mention it.

    Read somewhere that the turntable at Valognes station was sabotaged just prior to D-Day as part of an organised effort by the railwaymen. A lot of French rail workers paid a heavy price in lost lives through both Allied air strikes and resistance reprisals from the Germans. There is an old B&W film called 'The Train' starring Burt Lancaster which depicts the bravery of these men graphically.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    OK, the second sequence over Folligny Railway Yard.

    This one runs for 18 seconds from time mark 5:07 to 5:25 in the same British Pathe footage, Film ID No. 2855.04 ('Invasion 1940-1944'). The first still in this sequence, No. 310, was the key in tying the location to Folligny Railway Yard. The distinctive curve of the Granville/Coutances junction showing at right is unmistakable:
    [​IMG]

    As of this date, Google Earth shows the two line junction while Bing Maps shows the newly created 'Triangle de Folligny' high speed three rail junction. The curved bend in still No. 310 above is now defunct as a result of this new layout. 'Anorak' train spotters may wish to take a look at this YouTube video, as the train travels down the new western fork, otherwise stay with the recon photo 'anorak':D

    Below is the GE finder chart for still No. 310:
    [​IMG]

    The western side of the marshalling yard comes into view as we come to still No. 314:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Stills 315 and 317 show the aircraft on the same south easterly course as we saw in the first sequence to drop their loads over the southern exit:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Note the huge plume of dust and debris rising from bomb strikes at the southern exit, making the last still, No. 325 almost impossible to geo-position - except...
    [​IMG]

    ...for the avenue leading up to the Pignolet Farm as indicated by the red and yellow arrow ties to the 1947 IGN cover extract below:
    [​IMG]

    Anyone able to ID the aircraft's call sign in still No. 325? - viewing the footage may work better that viewing the stills here if you can freeze frame on a particularly sharp section of the film.

    There are a couple of post strike images floating on the web and I am not sure who owns the rights to them if anyone, so I am using them here without a credit line. First, an oblige view looking east across the marshalling yard:
    [​IMG]

    Note ties A, B and C on the GE screenshot below:
    [​IMG]

    I notice what appears to be an out of sequence bomb crater in one of the houses at the station entrance. See the arrowed hole in both front and rear walls in this zoomed extract of the oblige shot:
    [​IMG]

    There are four fresh craters from the American raid but note below the same house as it appears in still No. 294 from the first sequence:
    [​IMG]

    This building has absolutely no roof timbers visible and the crater looks to be somewhat smaller than ones created by the American 500 pounders - I wonder if this is an old crater from the German raid in 1940, with all the timbers long since removed for firewood?

    This is not the house seen in the ground photograph of the damage done following the 1940 raid which we referred to in the first post above - see the photo again at the top of this page. It is however, just across the T junction at the Station entrance, being obscured from view by the collapsed footbridge.

    Only train spotters wear anoraks :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  9. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    An interesting tie found just now; see the top entry on this page of the B26.com site showing the Combat Log of 1st Lt. William Phillips III of the 456th BS, 323rd BG as being over Folligny on the 7th June.

    Aircraft of the 456th BS should be marked with the squadron code letters 'WT' - however, the only squadron I can be in any way sure of as being represented in the footage is the wing man to the camera aircraft in the second sequence. The sharpest still showing this Marauder is No. 324 at the end of the bomb run:
    [​IMG]

    I make the code letters to be 'VT' (453rd BS), with perhaps the identifier being 'R'. If correct, there is a possibility that this is therefore 41-34967 'HELL'S BELLE' according to aviation artist Mark Styling's page here.

    Anyone able to improve my interpretation of the letters?

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  10. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 25, 2012
    570
    9
    Male
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    hi Pat,

    I think you mixed up the two groups. The 453rd BS is identified by VT, and the 456th BS by WT.
    They both fall under the 323rd BG anyway but WT R is Hell's Belle of the 456th, and VT R could be The Toid Boid 41-34853.
    ((I edited out my own error)

    I just can't confirm a V or a W ... or an R or B

    John
     
  11. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks John - well spotted ;)

    Marauder 41-34967 'HELL'S BELLE' is indeed WT-R of the 456th BS.

    I base my preference for 'VT' (453rd BS) over 'WT' (456th BS) for the footage still on another much clearer still of 'VT-K' from a different British Pathe piece of footage titled 'Invasion Scenes in Europe' (Film ID No. 2139.03). This still is the one shown below; being the first in the film:
    [​IMG]

    Note how the two sides of the letter 'V' point to the white stripe at the dorsal turret and the adjoining forward black stripe. I think a 'W' would look wider.

    I am loosing faith in my assertion of the letter 'R'; the angle of view is too high resulting in the lower half of the letter being fully obscured under the curve of the fuselage. It could therefore be any letter with a resemblance to 'B', 'P' or 'R' :huh:

    I'll see if I can find a good close up of a 456th aircraft with invasion stripes to compare the respective positions of the 'W' and the 'V'.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  12. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 25, 2012
    570
    9
    Male
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Pat,
    After some further looking, I almost certain you are correct about the V.
    In the WT ones I see, the ends of the W are nearly vertical with only some slight angle.
    the one in the image appears more angular.
    I corrected my earlier post because I had the wrong Squadron.
    VT R could be The Toid Boid 41-34853.

    John
     
  13. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi John,

    Unless there is more of this film somewhere, it's going to be impossible to tag the identifier letter of this aircraft. It's been my experience that there is little or no improvement in clarity when you purchase a "High Resolution" copy of these stills. I tried obtaining one a while back for a C-47 taking off from the La Londe A-6 ALG to try for its serial number but found no improvement over the preview. To be fair however, that aircraft was passing the camera at right angles and therefore there was significant blur which was never going to improve.

    I have Ernie Pyle's 'Brave Men' with me today for lunch break as I know he spent time with a Marauder Group in England before the invasion. IIRC, he even went on a mission with one of the crews. He was writing the book during the War and therefore never identified individual units but there might still be something to be gleamed from a re-read.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  14. ddayHorsa

    ddayHorsa Active Member
    Researcher

    Dec 20, 2013
    220
    0
    Greetings; an interesting analysis you guys are persuing.

    For what it is worth, frame #71 of "Invasion Scenes in Europe", film ID No. 2139.03, referenced above, does show a WT code letter combination on a Marauder. As indicated, the sides of the "W" are practically vertical, and thus intersect the white and black invasion stripes in essentially the same locations as to the tops of the "V" in the VT combination. See below:



    [​IMG]


    Charles
     
  15. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Charles,

    I had hoped there would be a more significant difference between the two letters :s

    Fooling around in Photoshop can be misleading in that you subconsciously keep at it until you see what you want to see in an image. However, in this case, while not doing much good to the T of the squadron code and the aircraft identifier letter, I believe the V is now more pronounced and sharper:
    [​IMG]

    What do you guys think?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  16. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    Below is the second web image I found which does not seem to be the property of any present day individual or organisation. If such is not the case, please let me know and I will credit it correctly:
    [​IMG]

    It appears to be a USAAF Bomb Damage Assessment (BDA) photo of the Folligny Railway Yard following the 7th June raid.

    The white rectangle labeled '1' appears to be a cluster of bomb craters just in front of where the present day station house now stands. I am not sure why these craters are of particular interest - perhaps the PIs were indicating a train completely destroyed which is not immediately obvious on this version of the photo.

    Certainly labels '2' and '3' indicate trains which appear to have survived relatively undamaged, with perhaps the arrows pointing to individual wagons de-railed by single close bomb strikes.

    No bombs appear to have hit the two new sidings at the south eastern exit, despite what we saw in the footage.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  17. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    I found another version of the Folligny raid footage on the Critical Past site here. This version is slightly longer at 41 seconds between time marks 01:58 and 02:39. Interestingly, it shows some new scenes as the Marauders turn for home with the smoke and dust billowing from the rail yard visible in the distance.

    This version also has voice-over and the narrator describes the target as being:

    Folligny is more like ten miles north of Avranches, but we won't hold that against him :D

    I had a go at orientating the view from the new sequence and eventually tagged the hamlet of La Clergerie at left with the D372 winding its way past heading up to the D924. I circled the crossroads in yellow below:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Note field 'A' as an additional tie. The view is therefore south-west and the Marauders have turned onto a north-westerly course if I am reading the direction of flight correctly.

    The title board appears to confirm the date as the 7th June.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  18. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Folks,

    We have been contacted by Jan Foster of Austin, Texas, whose dad, Walter Foster was a lead bombardier with the 456th Bombardment Squadron, 323rd Bombardment Group. Jan's email is reproduced below with her permission:

    In follow up correspondence, Jan has introduced us to Roy Bozych, official Historian to the 323rd BG. Roy has a huge volume of work to his credit for the Group and is the editor of their newsletter, 'The Wolf Howl'. A photograph of Jan appears at the bottom of page 15 in last December's issue here.

    Roy has been kind enough to take a look at the Folligny footage for us and has emailed his findings thus:

    So we have a positive identification on the Marauder in the BP Folligny footage - 41-31899 Ticklish Percy II VT-K:

    [​IMG]

    Roy tells me that that this aircraft flew its first mission on the 21st December 1943 and its final one on the 16th February 1945 for a remarkable total of 133 missions.

    My thanks to Jan and Roy for their help with this thread and we are obviously going to take up their kind offers of further assistance.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  19. rogerzoontjens

    Guest

    Hi John it can not be the toid boid because he was shot down on 26 March 1944 at Ijmuiden Holland. I have investigated the crashsite and we adopted the grave of one of the crewmembers at Margraten American Cemetery.


    On March 26th, 1944, Sgt Paul Raymond Scott went with his crew to Holland for an a maximum effort raid on Ijmuiden, Holland to hit the boat pens with 344 bombers over the target. Despite heavy flak defenses, only one bomber was lost in the attack (this was the Toid Boid).

    They took a direct hit in the bomb bay and went down near IJmuiden
    The crew of the Toid Boid was a new crew because the actual crew (Foster crew) had a day off. The crew on this day was called the "Reese crew", concerning the following crew-members:

    * 2nd Lt Halmyth C. Reese (Pilot),
    * William C. Berryman (Co Pilot),
    * Sgt Paul R. Scott (Radio operator/ Waist gunner,
    * Sgt Ralph R. Brown (Bombardier),
    * S/Sgt Alex E. Sundberg (Armorer/Turret gunner,
    * Sgt Donald L. Jacobs (Engineer/Tail gunner)

    The German report indicates that "Toid Boid" was shot down by heavy flack at 14.44 hrs local time and crashed 2 km south of IJmuiden in the Dunes.

    The orginal crew from the “Toid Boid” was the Foster Crew. This lucky crew had a day off.
    Cpt.Foster is passed away you can find information on this link:
    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=6024246

    Investigation at the crash site learned that the wreckage was destroyed for 95%. Only a part of the tail was recognizable, filed with number 134 on the left side and 853 on the right side. The body of Sgt Paul R Scott was found among the back dome at that time he could not be identified. The crew was buried on March 29, 1944 in IJmuiden on the cemetery at the Havenkade and transferred after the war to Margraten (Sgt Paul R. Scott was first buried at Temporary American Military Cemetery Margraten Block PPP, Row 2, Grave 47), and in 3 cases repatriated to the USA. At 1948 1949 many soldiers were repatriated to the USA. In this time Sgt Scott reburied in to his final resting place at American Military Cemetery Magraten Plot J, Row 16, Grave 1. For his sacrifice/service and and has contributed to our freedom, he got a purple heart .



    Statement from Sgt Robert C. Malarkey, Tail Gunner, A/C 787:
    "While we were on the bomb run, I saw Lt. Reese's airplane on fire. The fire was coming from the roots of the wings and was streaming back to the tail. We turned and I lost sight of it momentarily. The next time I saw it, it was spiraling steeply down. I saw it strike on the coast and explode. I did not see any chutes from the airplane.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Roger and welcome to the Forum.

    Thank you for the additional information on 'Toid Boid' - great to have another Marauder expert member :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     

Share This Page