Battle of Epsom June 29th-30th Das Reich Regiment Command Post

Discussion in 'German' started by Marty Patterson, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. Marty Patterson

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    Feb 19, 2020
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    Doing my best to locate the Das Reich / Der Fuher Battalion or Regiment command post location in our near the outskirts of Noyers-Bocage on June 29th-30th 1944. Trying to nail down the location that Adolf Diekmann was killed by artillery fire on the afternoon of June 30th. Any info would be appreciated.
     
  2. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Hello Marty, I've never looked into this but the little information I did find claims that it happened north of Noyers. Doesn't really help to narrow things down, but it might be a start.
     
  3. Sean

    Sean Active Member
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    Hello Marty

    I was having a conversation about thhis very topic with some friends just last week. Unfortunately, I have nothing really to add to what Niels wrote. The divisional history by Otto Weidinger just says "north of Noyers", and the sketch map within is rather vague.
    To clarify a little, though, everything I've read suggests Diekmann was killed by his own (ie battalion) command post, rather than that of the regiment. The latter I believe was in Noyers itself.
    Probably related but still interesting, the crossroads around the junction of the D83 and D139, a mile or so west of Grainville-sur-Odon does show probable evidence of heavy shelling and/or bombing in this 1947 photo. This is pretty much the front line, though, so I would have expected Bn HQ to be a little further back.

    Cheers

    Sean


    Grainville 47.jpg
     
  4. Stephen M. Fochuk

    Stephen M. Fochuk Active Member
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    I am willing to bet the Ultra material will give you that.
     
  5. Marty Patterson

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    Thanks for your input Sean. I was thinking that he was killed at the Regiment Command post "4th SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment (Das Fuher). I have read that on the 30th of June the command post was very near the front lines which makes sense that the bombardment was so heavy. It has also been stated that the British has identified areas of high concentration to specifically target with artillery and offshore battleships. Given Diekmann's rank, popularity (good and bad) you would think more would have been recorded on his actually death.
     
  6. Marty Patterson

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    I'm not familiar with Ultra.
     
  7. Marty Patterson

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    Attached Files:

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  8. Stephen M. Fochuk

    Stephen M. Fochuk Active Member
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    Marty,

    Where did these come from? I am looking for something along those lines of who was where, when etc.

    Stephen
     
  9. Stephen M. Fochuk

    Stephen M. Fochuk Active Member
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    Marty,

    Sorry. I should have added this to my previous reply. Ultra is where the allies were monitoring and decoding the Enigma transmissions.
     
  10. Marty Patterson

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    Stephen, I will backtrack a bit to locate the source. I've done so much research lately that I don't recall. I will get back with you.
     
  11. Marty Patterson

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  12. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Couple of points:
    - I agree with Sean on the CP in question. I've a description of an attack on the regimental command posts (with considerable losses although not from the staff itself). This is clearly unrelated to to Diekmann's death.
    - I've not found anything about the location of related CPs in Ultra. you typically don't send up reports of regimental and battalion CPs. It's just too low level.
     
  13. Stephen M. Fochuk

    Stephen M. Fochuk Active Member
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    Interesting. I have come across notes in squadron ORB's where they mention the chateau or location they attacked was a German HQ; can't recall if a CP was noted. I will have to look through my notes. Which makes me wonder where or how did they obtained this information? I realize probably from various sources, ground, air recce etc.. Would the Germans not be sending/reporting the location of the CP's to a higher authority?
     
  14. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Ultra is very dependent on radio transmissions. Battalion and regimental CPs are only really relevant at division level, you don't broadcast that by radio. There's no need. You use a telephone or a messenger. Division and Corps HQs however were reported to higher commands, which means this information was sometimes sent by radio. Lower level CPs, which are relevant in this case, are often discovered by spotter planes or observers (by looking for anything unusual, like traffic) and/or by triangulating radio transmissions. Common sense can be very useful in looking for potential CP locations as well. Then you only have to check and confirm.
     
  15. Stephen M. Fochuk

    Stephen M. Fochuk Active Member
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    Fair enough, and it certainly makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines that it might have been passed up the line, for whatever reason, and caught by ultra. I have to wonder, though, if anything exists in the files of the Army Operational Research branch?
     

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