LIFE Photo - Herd of Allied Tanks

Discussion in 'American' started by Pat Curran, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi All,

    Continuing the quest for the locations of the aerial photographs published in the 14th August 1944 issue of LIFE Magazine, I have scanned the famous 'Herd of Allied Tanks' photo from the article on page 21. However, I located a sharper, un-cropped copy which I am inserting below:
    [​IMG]
    The caption to the photograph reads:
    So, should we be looking at 'Cobra' ground I wonder, rather than the La Meauffe / Saint Jean de Daye area where we found the other three aerials from the article?

    Anyone see a match in either area?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  2. Sean

    Sean Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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    Hello there,

    Well I've been ploughing through the Geoportail site's photos to no avail, although the evidence of the Cobra bombing still visible is sobering..

    Anyway, some thoughts:

    [​IMG]

    First the road. Looks quite wide.
    Is 'A' the outskirts of a village/town or a small independent hamlet? The latter abound in the area. I live in one.
    Is 'B' a turretless Panther?
    Is 'C' also a Panther but more intact?

    Cheers,

    Sean
     
  3. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Can't argue with your three points Sean,

    I also wonder if the ground is dropping to a stream or creek at the extreme top right, possibly flowing into or out of the hamlet/village.

    For those who may not know the location of the initial 'Cobra' breakout, please see the map below showing the rectangular 'bomb box' west of St Lo:
    [​IMG]

    I'm going to do a bit more searching for Charlie Trainor's gun camera footage locations tonight so if anyone else wants to take on this one, please feel free to add to Sean's efforts :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  4. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    No location yet, but some progress...

    I found footage of the scene on Critical Past here between time marks 00:30 and 00:33. Here is the LIFE photo again; this time marked up with letters attached to six fields on the left:
    [​IMG]
    Below are four stills showing the same fields as the aircraft flies over the road:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    But where, oh where is it :D

    One hint might be the preceding aerial scene lasting four seconds. I merged the three relevant stills into one below to get a good perspective on the road and eventually found the road bend (the pond on the inside brought it home):
    [​IMG]

    Its about 1.4 miles or thereabouts north of Marigny on the D29 and is possibly shot on the first day of 'Cobra', the 25th July. By evening of that day, Collins could see that the 9th ID were not going to make the town, so he pushed the fresh 1st ID through them with CCB, 3rd Armoured in support. Who is who in the footage I do not know.

    The two scenes may of course be totally unrelated, but I am certainly focusing on Marigny until proved wrong :D

    BTW, now that we have a new perspective on the 'Herd of Allied Tanks, can you armour guys confirm that they are in fact Shermans and not German vehicles? :s

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  5. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    At long last... :rolleyes:

    The extra few seconds of footage in the BP Film #1958.01 'Invasion Scenes (1944)' finally brought this one home. The badly damaged hamlet seen in the top of the LIFE photo is l'Hotel Caruel, about 3 miles NW of Saint Lo, across the Vire River.

    Here is the famous photo again, with additional ties in yellow:

    [​IMG]
    The delay in finding this location was primarily caused by the fact that quite a large part is now buried under the N174 motorway, and with no digitised NCAP cover, it was only located by means of a frame from 1947 IGN cover.

    You can clearly see this difference when the following two images are compared:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Now those crucial two stills from the long version of the aerial footage in BP #1958.01:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The two apple trees, X and Y survived the bombardment in 1944 and appear quite clearly in the zoomed extract from the 1947 IGN cover below - though they did not survive the motorway construction!:
    [​IMG]
    Note the hedgerow at an angle to the road marked 'Z'. In 1944 it had a high voltage pylon which is also clearly visible in the stills and footage - possibly casting a shadow in the zoomed extract above. I had a look to see what was left of the scene in Google 'street view' and found a modern day replacement pylon on the other side of the re-aligned road, so the power company must be using the same route now as it then back then, albeit a more substantial structure!:
    [​IMG]

    So who owns the 'Herd of Allied Tanks'?

    A look at this map appears to point towards 'Hell on Wheels' US 2nd Armoured Division. If the date on the footage clapper board is correct (26th July), then these tanks must be rear elements of this formation, but I have not studied the division's movements during Operation Cobra in any great detail. Perhaps someone else with more knowledge can be more precise.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  6. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Hi Pat,

    From the book "Hell On Wheels" by Donald Houston, regarding this timeframe...

    Page 213 in the early afternoon of July 25, the 2nd Armored Division received a message that the Germans were felling trees across the road and covering them with antitank guns all the way to St. Gilles. After the infantry attacks began, with troops meeting only moderately light resistance, Collins decided to commit the exploiting force the next day, July 26th. In spite of the limited sucess of the air attack, he guessed that there was more to be gained in committing the troops to battle than in permitting the Germans to regroup and prepare for a delayed attack.
    Rose alerted to move south of the assembly area on July 25, began moving at 10:30pm that day. At 2:00am he assembled his unit commanders and gave them verbal orders for the attack. The original plan was changed because of recent information. They were to attack in one column, two battalions abreast, instead of in two columns as originally planned. Combat Command A would attack with the 2d Battalion, 66th Armor, on the right and the 3rd Battalion, 66th Armor on the left of the road between St Gilles and Canisy, Two Infantry companies accompanied the lead tank battalions, while the remainder of the infantry (in trucks) followed the 1st Battalion of the 6th Armor.
    (I believe to be a typo for 66th Armor)

    General Brooks told Rose to get started; he did. Crossing the line of departure at 9:45am, Combat Command A passed through the 120th Infantry Regiment, 30th Infantry Division, and deployed because of the difficult terrain. By 10:35, the tankers had broken through the thin crust of German defenses, about 1 1/2 miles north of St Gilles. The tanks had, to that point, encountered artillery fire, some antitank fire, at least one tank and an occasional defended hedgerow. Bomb craters caused greater delays than the enemy; the division engineers practically had to rebuild the roads. Combat Command A took their first prisoners about 10:35, sending them to the rear for questioning...

    John
     
  7. Sean

    Sean Active Member
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    Nice one, Pat :D
     
  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi John,

    Yes, the aerial footage in the BP film seems to be all from a spotter plane assigned to the 2nd Armoured Division. Note the scenes showing Saint Lo from the north, including a view of the German PoW cage in the old French Army 're-mount' stables.

    Also have a look at still #169 in the BP film. The Stuart therein is certainly 2nd AD as per the clapper board and the TAC sign on the rear of the vehicle.

    There are some other scenes in the aerial footage which should be 'doable' now that we have all the aerial locations from the LIFE article.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  9. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Hi Pat,
    I will follow up with more from the book later tonight because the next few paragraphs of "Hell On Wheels" speak of an observation plane identifying some Mark VI tanks just south of St Gilles I believe. I wonder if that is also in the BP film.
    ... I hate when work interrupts research.

    John
     
  10. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi John,

    There is one scene in the BP footage which shows some sharp frames of two vehicles in a cratered field. The two or three stills from the scene might reveal what they are, but I don't think they are tanks; too small.

    Did you see the ground scene showing the bulldozer pulling the jeep out of the crater? That bit might be from the Cobra 'bomb box' area but I think friendly fire was quite common over a much bigger area on the first day of the offensive.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  11. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Hi Pat,
    I did see the scenes you describe, but I wonder if there is any chance something else is spotted in the aerial portion.
    Continuing from "Hell On Wheels"...
    While north of St Gilles, Rose learned that air reconnaissance had reported seven Mark VI tanks south of that town. Later, Combat Command A confirmed that the German tanks had indeed entered the town. At 3:00pm the advance guard of the 2nd Battalion, 66th Armor, on the right side of the route of advance, reported that it had encountered a roadblock 800 yards north of St Gilles. This destroyed overpass was defended by antitank guns and infantry. The leading units called for air support, which eliminated the obstacle. About ten minutes later the 2nd Battalion, 66th Armor circumvented a minefield and entered the town from the northwest. In a short, brisk fight, the tankers destroyed two tanks and a self propelled gun, while the air corps accounted for two additional tanks.

    After passing through the town, the command split into two columns. The 2nd Battalion, 66 Armor, stayed on the road toward le Mesnil Herman, while the 3rd Battalion, 66th Armor, moved southwest toward St Sampson de Bon Fosse. The objectives were the extensive road network leading into the main battle area from the east and south. The Germans tried with artillery and antitank fire but failed to interrupt the columns. When these efforts proved fruitless, the Germans quickly manned a defensive position behind a stream as a tank ditch, but this too was un successful. The 2nd Battalion, 66th ARmor, flanked this position from the east, driving the defenders out. Artillery fire increased as the Americans took the high ground 1,400 yards north of Canisy. During the advance, the combat command had burned several fuel dumps, destroyed several armored vehicles and captured almost 100 prisoners.

    Rose's command met its first determined opposition at Canisy. The Germans were using a bombed-out overpass as a roadblock. About 5:00pm D Company, 66th Armor, moved into firing positions atop a hill overlooking the town. Meanwhile, A Company flanked the town and entered it from the east. As the infantrymen helped clean out the town and the tanks regrouped to continue southward, they were bombed by a flight of American P-47s which apparently mistook them for Germans. The Americans were using their identification panels and yellow smoke to signal airplanes; the Germans were using orange for the same purpose. The colors must have looked much the same from the air.


    The infantry involved in supporting the 66th Armored Battalions is not identified in Hell On Wheels
    , but Mark Bando's book "Breakout at Normandy" identifies them as the 22nd Infantry Regiment of the 4th Infantry Division.

    John
     
  12. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Could be John,

    I have been off line for the last two days or so but will try and tie down some more of the footage tomorrow.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  13. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi John,

    I have located the scene shown in stills 80, 81 and 82 of the BP Film #1958.01 'Invasion Scenes (1944)'. Its on the D29 Marigny road, about 1.4km south of the intersection with the main Periers - Saint Lo road.

    The location is the hamlet of Montreuil sur Luzon, which is confirmed from 1947 IGN cover.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  14. Sean

    Sean Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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    Hello there,

    Just as a point of interest, the same two Panthers visible in the 'Herd of Allied Tanks' photo I think may be those seen in this footage at around the 30 second mark:

    [video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJuXB9nb-MM[/video]


    Makes sense as the cameraman continues down the road into St Gilles. Still from the film:

    [​IMG]

    Cheers,

    Sean
     
  15. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi Sean,

    In your earlier post, you marked the two Panthers 'B' and 'C':

    [​IMG]

    I presume you are looking at 'B' as the candidate for foreground Panther in the footage?
    If so, is there a roof visible between the two concrete power poles in your still - if so. I cannot place it in the LIFE photo. The timber telephone pole in your still is also not showing in a close up of 'B':

    [​IMG]

    Am I viewing things the same as you?...

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  16. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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    I don't think that's a roof. Looks like a bush in the footage.
     
  17. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Niels,

    Look directly over the head of the leading GI in Sean's still:
    [​IMG]
    The lines are too rigid for it to be a bush or other vegetation.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  18. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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    The lines are not that straight at all. If you look at that area in the actual moving footage it changes quite a bit. You can actually see it moving in the wind.
     
  19. Sean

    Sean Active Member
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    Hello Pat,

    To address your issues....

    Niels is right, I think, it's not a roof but a bush or tree. It's less 'rigid' in the short segment before the 30 second mark.

    I think the pole is just hidden by the hedgerows, but there is a faint pale vertical line which could be it.

    Maybe the half-buried Panther can be seen further along as well? There's something which is causing traffic to swerve around it.

    the trees in the background also seem to match those just in the bottom right hand corner of the Life photo.

    [​IMG]

    What do you reckon?

    Sean
     
  20. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi Sean,

    Looks better to me now; I had a look at the bit of the road caught by US30/4378/2007 flown on the 29th July and I can see the telephone pole shadow quite clearly now:
    [​IMG]
    There is something reflecting a lot of light at the 4 o'clock position from your 'B' label, so perhaps that's what I am seeing as a rigid roof line :s

    Regards,

    Pat
     

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