Order of Glider take off - Membury

Discussion in 'Troop Carrier & Glider' started by Dave Frederick, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. Dave Frederick

    Dave Frederick Active Member
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    Nov 20, 2016
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    Hello everyone. I hope there is good heath for all.

    I must apologize, this question my have been brought to the forum before,
    Lt. Thomas J. Moore Jr. was in the 436thTCG 80Sq. He was a co-pilot in a Horsa glider during the Elmira operation, D Day. Lt. George Ford was the pilot. If I recall correctly, Tom said George Ford was the flight squadron leader for glider pilots in the 80th. I was also told by Lt. Tip Randolph, George and Tom were the first :in line: for the the 80Sq.
    My question: Is the a document that notes the squadrons take off "placememt" in the 436th TCG. Some time back. I recall touching on this subject with Neil. I have forgot most of it. I believe what came out of it...as...chalk numbers on the gliders may be displayed differently according to squadrons. I not assume that George and Tom's glider was marked as "1" I suspect were thry were positioned in line for take off.

    Thank you for your time
    Be Well
    Dave
     
  2. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hi Dave,
    I think I know what you are looking for, and the order was known by Patrick Elie as he posted in post #19 here:
    Lt. Thomas J. Moore Jr. 436th TCG 80Sq

    Just quote Patrick Elie : When you say that Ford and Moore were in Horsa #1, I suppose you mean Horsa #1 of the 80th TCS?
    The formation seems to have been made in this order
    79 TCS : 12 C-47 & 12 Horsa (1-12)
    80 TCS : 12 C-47 & 12 Horsa (13-24)
    82 TCS : 15 C-47 & 12 Horsa (25-36)
    81 TCS : 11 C-47 & 12 Horsa & 2 CG-4A (37-50)

    So if Ford & Moore were in the first glider of the 80 TCS they were Chalk #13

    I know Neil Jones had a theory about chalk lines above or below a chalk number, or a ball beneath a number, but I don't recall the details of that theory.

    I hope this was what you were looking for.

    John
     
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  3. Dave Frederick

    Dave Frederick Active Member
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    Nov 20, 2016
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    Thank you John, Yes this is helpful. I do recall Tip Randolph relaying George Ford and Thomas Moore was the "first" for the 80th. ....in that not to be taking off but just representing the 80th Sq. Yes, some time back I saw that written by Neil. I'll do some looking. Neil had an interesting theory on chalk numbers. It seems I may need to focus on "13" somewhere.

    Be Well
     
  4. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 25, 2012
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    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Dave,
    Take a look at this thread of posts on the horsa chalk markings here: Horsa Chalk markings with a dot - 436th TCG?
    This is where Neil mentions his theory... You may also follow the mention of a horsa named "Spook" that was numbered 14.
    It is very possible that is was in echelon with your father in laws Horsa and it landed in the La Londe area.

    John
     
  5. Dave Frederick

    Dave Frederick Active Member
    Researcher

    Nov 20, 2016
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    John,

    Thank you for the heads up. Tip Randolph sent me a list of the GPs that flew on D Day from the 80th. By chance he happen to start out with George Ford and Thomas J Moore first on the list. Of course this does not tell me the order but it is neat to see each GP signed next to their name and look for possibilities for a "nickname" ...."Spook". It may take a day or so to locate this but, I will send you a copy.

    Be Well
    John
     
  6. Jonesy

    Jonesy Active Member
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    Nov 23, 2014
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    Wiltshire, UK
    Great to hear from you Dave. It's all theoretical regarding the Chalk numbers but I believe the 436th had a number with a dot underneath. I have yet to find any documentation detailing the specifics of the Chalk numbers that would be painted on every glider. There must have been some order but whether that would have come from the 82nd Airborne or IX Troop Carrier Command, I just do not know.

    In theory Ford and Moore would have been in Chalk #13. There is photos and footage of Chalk #14 but I haven't seen #14 yet.

    Neil.
     
  7. ddayHorsa

    ddayHorsa Active Member
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    Dec 20, 2013
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    Hi Neil; I still go along with the idea that the 436th had a dot below a number. We have identified a number of Horsa gliders with dot's. I am still looking.
     
  8. Dave Frederick

    Dave Frederick Active Member
    Researcher

    Nov 20, 2016
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    Thank you Neil....good information. I will continue the search.

    By the way, I am amazed at your site. Great work there!

    Be Well
    Dave
     

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