Hi All, I found a small number of Normandy related aerial reconnaissance and gun camera photos on the Australian War Memorial site and have opened this thread in an effort to find the locations shown therein. Some of the locations have no captions, others are captioned incorrectly and a few have the correct locations referenced. In no particular order and using the AWM serial numbers for reference, here are two to start with; first SUK12649: The above photo cation reads: This caption is correct. The small wood still stands today on the NW corner of the village of Rocquancourt. See this Google Maps overview. Does anyone know the story of this attack? I wonder if the target was a German HQ rather than 'enemy armour hiding in a wood' :dodgy: The next photo, referenced SUK12797, looked a bit daunting until I realised its a zoomed extract from a reconnaissance sortie frame we have looked at before: This photo is captioned: The junction is the D26/D105 'crow's foot' (my term) which we looked at in post #6 of the 'Extracts 'Patton's Gap' (430 Sq RCAF)' thread. The extract is from frames 15 and 16 of sortie 430/601 flown on the 8th August and reproduced below again for reference: Below is an IGN finder chart showing the junction circled in black. It is approximately 38kms west of Falaise: More follows... Regards, Pat
More... I just located the Rocquancourt footage. Its between time marks 01:12 and 01:20 in the BP Film 'Allies Winged Warfare 1944' (#1364.26). Looks like the rockets are overshooting the wood and impacting the orchard on the other side. Regards, Pat
Another two captioned imprecisely: First, SUK13656: The caption reads: This is the small town of Putanges Pont Ecrepin on the River Orne about 14 kilometers SSW of Falaise. I found it by using Google Maps to match the bends in the river. Next, SUK12782: This photo is captioned: The dark horizontal line I first took to be a railway cutting in shadow and while there is a now disused quarry just to the NE of the village at Aisy, the correct location is still (as far as I can see) a working quarry 7kms to the north of Fontaine le Pin at Haut Mesnil. The dark line is in fact the N158 main Caen/Falaise road. The side road at top left is the D132a leading eastwards to the hamlet of Cauvicourt, just out of shot. More follows... Regards, Pat
Hi All, Has anyone seen full size versions of these three photos?. I would wonder if similar photos might have been made of models in the American airborne sector. Thanks, Pat
Found SUK12779. Its about four kilometres south of Vimoutiers on the D26. The junction shows the intersection with the D242 - see this Google Maps view. Black arrow on right of photograph indicates north direction. There appears to be German road traffic streaming southwards out of the D242 and onto the D26, presumably retreating towards Gace. Regards, Pat
Hi Pat, I don't have these pictures in any larger form. I am sure you know this is a zoom into the landing area between Ranville and La Basse Ecarde. The best I can offer are these 2 frames: P0061 and P_0062 from US7/1730 sortie. [hr] Searching the web for terms like 'briefing model', 'relief model' or 'model maker' returned some interesting results however not what you are looking for. Link1 is a dissertation about camoflage and model in warfare. Lots of references and pictures. Link2 has an article about the importance of model making during WW2. Link3 about terrain models as well. [hr] Searching the web for terms like 'briefing model', 'relief model' or 'model maker' returned some interesting results however not what you are looking for. Link1 is a dissertation about camoflage and model making in warfare. Lots of references and pictures. Link2 has an article about the importance of model making during WW2 starting with page 32. Link3 about terrain models as well.
Thanks Hans, Just hoping that if we could locate the originals they might have some interesting features marked thereon. I also wonder if similar models were made for the American DZ/LZs. Regards, Pat
Hi All, found the exact loaction of this areal also taken from the AWM. The caption reads: Aerial view of a Lancaster bomber of No 463 Squadron RAAF flying low over the town of St Cyr, France, just prior to crashing on 25 July 1944. The aircraft's starboard (right) inner engine is on fire and the remaining engines are losing fuel. The aircraft's crew parachuted out shortly after this photograph was taken; three of the crew, 426527 Warrant Officer (WO) Edward Burke (gunner); 426565 WO Edward John Fallon (air bomber) and 417899 WO John Barnes Sincock (navigator), were taken prisoner of war (POW). Two more crew members, 417833 Flying Officer Donald Charles Gundry (pilot) and 426691 Flight Sergeant Vernon John Scheldt, were killed during this operation. The picture was taken after a raid of the Saint-Cyr airfield. So caption is correct. Here is a crew picture in front of a Vickers Welligton (exact date unknown) The caption reads: Informal portrait of the crew of a Vickers Wellington, 463 Squadron RAAF, standing in front of their aircraft. Identified from left to right: 426527 Warrant Officer (WO) Edward Burke (gunner); 426565 WO Edward John Fallon (air bomber); 417833 Flying Officer Donald Charles Gundry (pilot); 417899 WO John Barnes Sincock (navigator); 426691 Flight Sergeant Vernon John Scheldt. Gundry and Scheldt were later killed whilst on operations over St Syr, France, on 25 July 1944. [hr] Trying to beat the link limitation. Some addtl information can be found here (link) It was later established that the aircraft crashed near Omerville and both FO Gundry and Flt Sgt Scheldt were killed They are buried in the Omerville Communal Cemetery, which is in a village 7kms WSW of Magny-en-Vexim and 48kms NW of Versailles, Locality Val d’Oise, France. Flt Sgt Fallon, Sgt Wadsworth and Flt Sgt Burke became POW’s, and the other two crew members evaded capture. In a later statement Flt Sgt Fallon reported “near Rouen on the way to the target we were hit by flak several times. On the run to the target we were hit again by flak and after dropping the bombs the stbd inner caught fire also fire near astro dome. The Captain tried to feather the prop without success, and the fire extinguisher had no effect on the fire inside the A/c. The Mid Upper was hit in the leg by flak and carried to rear escape hatch by WOP. Ordered to prepare to abandon and on order bale out the WOP pushed out the Mid Upper. I baled out first from front escape hatch, height 6000 feet. A/c losing height slowly but generally straight and level. Became unconscious on baling out and did not recover until hit the ground. Taken to jail at Beauvais where met Rear Gunner. Later joined by Nav who was injured in legs. Later told that Nav and Mid Upper who were taken to German hospital for treatment were released by Americans in Paris and back in UK Oct 1944. Also told two of crew were killed in crash (presume Pilot and WOP) Released by Russians on 22/4/45 and flown back to UK 13/5/45. [hr] There is at the IWM a film from the same raid, same SQDN: link Not sure how to get. Can films be ordered?
Hans, If you email them via filmcommerical@iwm.org.uk they will give you licencing information. Be sure to tell them its for non-commercial use. Good job confirming St. Cyr as the location. Regards, Pat
Trying to confirm SUK12788; I am not sure, but I thinks its taken on this bend on the D16 between Chambois and Vimoutiers. Anyone able to confirm? Thanks, Pat
Hi Pat, i have my doubts about the bend of D16 at Vimoutiers. Here is the SUK12788 from Australian War Memorial Source>Australian War Memorial Here is the IGNF cover from 1955 rotated to match SUK12788 'feeling'. Source> IGNF 1955 For me it is not the same place. At the top of the bend the smaller roads are missing and the trees between the bigger and the smaller road are missing. I can't offer for this one one exact location though for the moment. Where I was successful is this small series of frames SUK12720 SUK12718 SUK12717 All 3 are showing a place close to a small village, the village of Clinchamps, 61160 Montabard. Traffic is congested in front of a rail underpass for a smaller road D29e connecting Pierrefitte and Clinchamps. The roads are leading into the Bois de Feuillet and than into the valley of Fallaise, close to Trun. The caption of SUK12720 reads:" France. C. 1944-08. This graphic photograph illustrates the confusion among the Germans of Von Kluge's Army in Normandy as they tried to get their transports through the village of Clinchamps, seven miles south east of Falaise, France, in an attempt to escape the advancing Allied Forces. Part of the column is cutting across a field (centre right) while on the road itself the traffic is two or three abreast. Enemy vehicles (centre left), many camouflaged with branches of trees, can be seen rounding a large bomb crater." So this caption is correct.
Hi Hans, I agree with your skepticism regarding my candidate location SUK12788 on the D16. Do you think the burning target is a road convoy? I think the curve is too severe for a railway track. Also, I suspect that there is a water course at lower right; either a brook/stream or small river - which would also rule out my candidate location. Have you any ideas on SUK12821? Thanks, Pat
Hi Pat, I am very interested in SUK12782 as I am researching the misbombing on August 14th 1944 in Falaise. My great uncle Gordon MacDonald with the 6 can LAA Regt .was killed during this bombing carried out by RAF and RCAF Squadrons. I was wondering if there was any squadron number associated with the photo. I am researching this day from both the troops on the ground side as well as Bombers involved. I am planning to write a book on this day and events leading up to the error. Thanks in advance, Alonzo
Hi Alonzo, I can see why this photo is of interest as its just 2.5Kms south of Bretteville sur Laize Canadian War Cemetery where your great uncle Craftsman Gordan J. MacDonald now rests. His headstone is circled in yellow on the GE extract below if I am reading the cemetery plan correctly (Plot X / Row D / Grave 11): I presume his death occurred during the initial aerial bombing which launched Operation Tractable around midday on the 14th August. However, while a large force of 'heavies' (Lancasters and Halifaxes) from RAF Bomber Command were the main instrument used, my understanding is that there was also a tactical force of 45 Mitchells and 28 Bostons from 2nd TAF also employed in a tactical role. Do you know anything of where specifically your great uncle was killed? Regards, Pat
I've added some colour to this map to make the aerial aspect of Operation Tractable a bit clearer... The medium bomber tactical targets shown in red above appear to be centered on the three villages of Montboint, Rouvres and Maizieres. According to Eddy Florentin in 'Battle of the Falaise Gap' the aircraft in this force were... '...to plaster the gun and mortar emplacements held by the remains of the 12th Panzer and the 85th Infantry Division...' I note the northern most target for the heavies was a wooded area, still present today, at the hamlet of Quesnay. This looks to be dangerously close to the jumping off line for the employment of a strategic force of heavies. The problem was that the first bombs impacting usually created vast amounts of dust and smoke, make it very difficult for following aircraft to bomb with any real hope of acquiring the accuracy necessary to avoid hitting friendly troops on the ground. The employment of strategic bomber forces in what was essentially a tactical role during the Normandy Campaign remains controversial to this day. Regards, Pat
A bit more... In his entry in the two Graves Concentration Report Forms, I note Craftsman MacDonald was first buried at map coordinate 7F/1, 087675. Can anyone convert to Lat/Long please? Thanks, Pat
This article... ...from the War History Online site makes reference to two aircraft from No. 428 Squadron (RCAF) bombing the Haut Mesnil quarry in error resulting in 49 other aircraft also bombing in error. If this is correct, then the photo marked SUK12782 shows bombs impacting the quarry from one of these aircraft. The quarry is 4.25Kms north of the northern most target at Quesnay hamlet. Regards, Pat
Hi Pat He was actually killed at around 1500 during the one of the main bombing phases. There were two areas hit in error one being the Haut Mesnil Quarry which gets most mention in unit histories and books but my uncle was at the other area which I cannot determine exactly as of yet.I have his entire unit history along with his personal records which are helpful. I have attached a handwritten note at time which mentions him being killed instantly and gives the time. I am trying to find out more about the Poles killed as well but have contacted lost of Poles without any luck. Thanks for your interest and the map you provided gives a great perspective. Alonzo
You are correct that photo does show impacts hitting the quarry and is by far the clearest photo I have seen of the misbombings I have seen. I have about 7 photos so far of that date but this one clearly shows the location which is awesome. Thanks again
Hi All, Further to Alonzo's query regarding the 'Tractable' short bombing, I have located aerial footage on the British Pathe site showing bombs impacting in this area. The BP Film ID is 2000.09 and the opening scene is shown below: Note fields A and B on the east side of the old N158 (present day D658) road at the hamlet of La Forge, just below Potigny. IGN cover flown in 1947, shown below, shows the same two fields A and B quite clearly: I have not yet had a chance to tie other scenes in the footage, but my guess would be that this is all 'Tractable' footage. Regards, Pat