Unknown troopers possibly in Normandy

Discussion in 'American' started by Jonesy, Dec 7, 2014.

  1. Jonesy

    Jonesy Active Member
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    Nov 23, 2014
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    A friend of mine purchased a large number of Troop Carrier photographs and amongst them was this very interesting photo.

    [IMG=850x879]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/jonesy1275/airborne-photograph-FB_zpse20fcaa6.jpg[/IMG]

    I've posted this thread in the Airborne section as the trooper on the far right has a chincup dangling from his helmet. Now it looks like they are guarding German POW's whilst the stone building is just typical of Normandy.

    The more I look at the trooper smiling at the camera, I'm getting more and more positive that there is a 9th AF patch on his shoulder. Could he be a Glider Pilot? They were utilised to guard POW's before reaching the beach.

    I'd be interested to hear what other people think.

    Regards,
    Neil.

    Edited by Pat to reduce image to 850 pixels wide
     
  2. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Hi Neil,
    I think you are right about the patch, at first I was thinking 82nd Airborne patch but it just didn't seem to have the right shape in my eyes. A 9th AF patch is pretty likely.

    And I bet that we can all work to find this location.
    There are many walls in the Heisville / Vierville area.

    Also I believe the paratrooper on the right with the chin cup has a spade on his helmet

    John
     
  3. Jonesy

    Jonesy Active Member
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    Nov 23, 2014
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    It's quite a substantial building too and I think you're right about the spade on the helmet. No Eagle patch on the shoulder though which is odd.
     
  4. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    I'm a bit puzzled. The GI standing doesn't seem to have para trousers ?
     
  5. Jonesy

    Jonesy Active Member
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    Nov 23, 2014
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    I don't think he is a paratrooper. If my assumption that he has a 9th AF patch on his M41 jacket, then I think he's a Glider Pilot.
     
  6. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    Am trying to match it with a 9 AF badge.... it is really hard to see. Pat, what program do you use to enlarge small photos?
    I think I have pinpointed the wall there..... but am on a new PC and don't have all software installed yet (what a PITA!!!) .... need screenshot software.

    I found the wall on an old film clip, I think it is the entrance tower of the castle, inside the courtyard.
     
  7. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi Guys,

    I am pretty sure Francois is correct - the structure appears to be the southern corner of the gate tower entrance to Chateau Colombieres. It appears destroyed in the bottom photo on page 81 of Mark's '101st Airborne - The Screaming Eagles at Normandy'.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi Guys,

    Location is confirm thanks to two photos in 'Utah Beach' by Dominique Francois and Georges Bernage:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Great Photo Neil - let us know if your friend needs help with any others.

    Francois, I think you are correct about the footage also - I cannot lay my hands on the disk just now, but I am pretty sure there is footage in Tyler's 82nd(?) DVD showing a small group of German PoWs being carted off in a jeep trailer and then being made to stand in front of a wall which has tree trunks in front of it. Reminds me a lot of this photo.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  9. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    Wow, great work Pat ! This is the clip I found the matching wall in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLnJ1nEJALM (3:08 minutes into the movie)
    I use this Youtube channel a lot to snap pictures from the videos :) But you have such a wealth of pictures researched (AND memorized!!!) already ! :)

    Still not sure about the shoulder patch....
     
  10. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    Interesting about the original photograph is that there are no hospital tents yet ! So this was taken right after the landings and before the hospital was erected?
     
  11. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi Francois,

    The tents are on the northern side of the gate tower in the colour shot above and may well be present out of shot to the right in Neil's photo.

    Two bombs were dropped on the location one night by a lone German raider a few days after the Invasion (12th/13th June IIRC). One of the craters is quite clear on the reconnaissance cover, but I could never find the second which may be under the tree canopy near the gate tower.

    I'll have a look at your YouTube footage tonight - it's blocked here at work ;)

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  12. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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  13. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    You mean the second bomb crater?
     
  14. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    Oh, sorry, no... the fact that the tents are outside ! :)
     
  15. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Hi All,

    This screen grab from the footage Francois refers to above shows a group of German PoWs being directed from a truck in the courtyard of Chateau Colombieres:
    [​IMG]
    Before seeing the subject photo of this thread, I had assumed that the PoWs were being directed back out under the arch to a possible holding field, but now I am pretty sure they are being directed to the wall on the south side of the gatehouse.

    The trees over the truck belong to the narrow avenue or laneway leading into the courtyard from the east. The footage is being shot from underneath the arch of the gatehouse or slightly in front of it. Note the north western corner of the high barn marked 'A' as a tie to the Bing Map extract below:
    [​IMG]

    The narrow laneway or avenue appears at lower right in the above extract.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  16. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    Yes, that seems to be the case. Good find !
     
  17. Jonesy

    Jonesy Active Member
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    Nov 23, 2014
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    [​IMG]

    Using Pat's map, can someone confirm to me the location of the archway please?

    Neil.
     
  18. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi Neil,

    Below is an extract from frame 4051 of sortie ACIU_US7GR_1857, flown by Lt J. L. Campbell on the 12th June:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk

    Note the same high barn with the north western roof corner marked 'A' and the round tower of Chateau Colombieres which is visible in many ground shots and footage. The building was so bady damaged in the bombing that it was never rebuilt and in its place you can see the smaller dwelling house with the dark roof in the Bing Map extract. The only bomb crater I have been able to find on any reconnaissance cover of the location is also marked on the above extract.

    The gatehouse is obscured by trees in frame 4051, but if I am not mistaken, it is inside the green circle.

    BTW, the two pale patches in the field to the west are temporary burial plots; one German and one American.

    Hope this helps Neil.

    Regards,

    Pat
     

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