Hi Pat, To answer a previous question; it was 3 separate straffing attacks. -the first appears to be a truck on a straight stretch with my father attacking from behind, -the second is a smaller "jeep-type vehicle" trying to hide behind a copse of trees and the straffing comes across (abeam?) of the vehicle -the third is as the photo shows; from behind. I will try to attach the next still photo shortly with the limo closer to the curve. The footage shows it veering to the left side of the road; just about where you see the signpost in your image. Regards, Ellen
Thanks Ellen, If it's easier for you, just attach the image(s) to an email and send to pat@whitebeamimages.ie. I don't think they are very big so it should not be a problem. If you do hit size limits, I can give you access to my ADrive account whereby you can upload via your web browser. Regards, Pat
Pat, your Boissey theory is consistent with the fairly sharp shadow at the jut out of the barn on the right side of the road if the 1630 time represents GMT+2. The sun should be at about 238 deg. My guess was that the plane was heading generally east and the road was at about 100-280. From GE, it appears D4 is heading just under 90 deg. Not bad for an image that looks just as fuzzy with my glasses on as off. Ellen, Pat's geolocation skills are legendary, but don't rely on him to locate your car - it would come back with the steering wheel on the wrong side.
Thanks Don for that :dodgy: Ellen has sent on some more stills from the same scene which I am processing in PS for her next post just now. I think you will be able to obtain better shadow angles from these. Regards, Pat
Hi Folks, Posted for Ellen: Whitebeam Team, Agonizingly slow in the colonies some days...a real tortoise/hare story with Pat and I. Apologies! Here is a section of the footage sequence as "stilled" by John Versteege: I will quote John's assessment of the distance between the corner and the church. A follow up from previous discussions on where/how my father may have banked for the second strike: Ellen
Hi Don, A good shadow appears under the apple tree in still #5 at top left corner. Hour, minute only required; forget the seconds Regards, Pat
Hi Pat and Ellen, Very nice photos for comparison. I think you can even make out the Cross or Crucifix in frame 5 and 6 that is on the left side of the Road in the Google street view. Now this is just opinion at this point but it seems with his plane coming back for a second strafing pass and the car now on his near side and partially hidden, that Charlie Trainor may have had to make his second pass at a steeper angle. When coming out of his second strafing run, this would have brought him very low over the houses and near the church spire. There also may be some unintended bullet marks of his second pass at the cross. Maybe something to look for. John
It appears from other stills that Dad pulled out of the dive to starboard, following the road. Definitely looks more open to the left and I might circle to port to take advantage of the more open view, unless there was a set procedure to return to a ground target quickly. A man-overboard drill would be similiar. How long it took to gain height and come around is beyond my knowledge. Perhaps not for too much longer though... http://aerolegends.co.uk/Spitfire_NH341.php I read your thread on Spit 944 yesterday, Pat; it's the look in these fellows eyes when they remember the feeling of flying them. Nice feel to this site, by the way! Tks again / Jim
Hi Jim, You know what I think is really intriguing about your father's footage? - its probably shot less than an hour before Rommel's car passed the same spot if current accounts are correct. I can imagine the car coming up on this wreckage and having to slow to go round it. If the accounts of his travels are not correct, then one's imagination knows no bounds Regards, Pat
"Ellen, Pat's geolocation skills are legendary, but don't rely on him to locate your car - it would come back with the steering wheel on the wrong side." - regardless of country the steering wheel is always on the right side (for the driver!!) good research guys Allan
Is Don still under the apple tree or would he like me to look for shadows in other stills? We drove from Caen to Liverot/Vimoutiers on Dec.21. A last minute decision to visit Liseaux resulted in D47 instead of D40/D4 thro' Boissey. It would have been a stumble had we made the connection; not remotely as convincing as is Pat's precision. If there could be bullets in the cross/memorial; would car fragments exist at the crash site? Ellen
Hi Ellen, Sometimes if you pick out a tree for Don he gets a bit upset - he prefers to choose his own With that in mind, I went onto the NCAP site to check for reconnaissance cover of Boissey for any dates around the 17th July. The closest they have in their digitised database (there may be other frames not yet scanned), is a sortie flown on the 15th June by...wait for it!... No. 400 (City of Toronto) Squadron, RCAF! Another Canadian connection Below is a merged extract from frames 3211 and 4211: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk As you can see Ellen, we put a huge effort into providing Don with trees Regards, Pat
Ellen, Anything is possible in this regard. The Calvary, if it was damaged in the attack, may have been repaired but you never know what a site visit might turn up. Regards, Pat
"Pat's geolocation skills are legendary, but don't rely on him to locate your car - it would come back with the steering wheel on the wrong side". Exceptional indeed! I wonder if the talent translates to the daily humdrum...finding glasses? matching socks? Ellen
Hi Ellen, No, I don't multi-task well at all. I have to wait until late at night before going after these locations, when everyone else is in bed Speaking of which, do you have any more stills from the other two(?) separate scenes? I'm starting to reach for my violin and you don't want to hear that! Regards, Pat
Pat, Nice forrest for Don to navigate! I have one still each of the other two attacks. I will ask John Versteege if he can improve on that number. Ellen
Thanks Ellen, Looking forward to seeing what you have. Do please ask John for a few more of each location - three or four of each if possible. The more detail of a location we have the better in order to improve the chances of success. Regards, Pat
You guys are awesome! Good work; fascinating stuff. I just requested the same gun film, but I was told by the IWM it won't be ready until end-2016. We are fortunate Ellen has shared. Dean [hr] Major-General Rohmer remains adamant he was low enough in his Mustang to have a clear view of the staff car, its occupants, their seating arrangements, etc...and, he made note of the exact location and time (17:05 hrs) of the sighting. It seems rather odd to me that if Rohmer spotted Rommel going northbound on the N179, is Trainor's still image depicting a staff car that is going in the opposite direction? Am I wrong to conclude Rommel was leaving a subordinate commander's field HQ, south of Voumitiers, and traveling north toward Livarot for his own HQ (wherever that might have been)? If I am right, then this staff car Trainor has shown, and Pat has suggested is near Boissey, is going the wrong way. Anyone else agree?
You are in the wrong thread Dean. If you want to discuss Rohmer's claims as to calling in an attack, that would be a better place. You did read the OP? / Jim
I'm sorry, Jim. What have I done? Forgive me...I'm not following the logic... [hr] Sorry if I have messed up...I don't yet know what I have done wrong. For what it is worth, I am cognizant of the possibility Trainor got Rommel, but I am approaching that possibility mindful of Rohmer's claimed sighting of Rommel. I was hoping if I shared Rohmer's information with those participating on the Trainor research you might be able to help me come to terms with Rohmer's claims. For example, if Rohmer sighted Rommel near Vimoutiers at 5:05 PM going north on N179, and called it in, is it possible Rommel could have gotten as far as Boissey, before, say 6:30 PM? But, the whole context of what I just wrote won't make sense because vehicles in each instance would be going the opposite directions, right?