The Battle of Rauray

Discussion in 'British & Commonwealth' started by Ramiles, Mar 29, 2015.

  1. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    This thread has now started :cool:

    Please feel free to post useful stuff about the battle of Rauray here...

    All the best, :sleepy:

    Rm.
     
  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    Progress so far:

    Books

    "The Normandy Campaign 1944: Sixty Years On" edited by John Buckley
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=065_AgAAQBAJ&pg=PT43&lpg=PT43&dq=Tessel+woods+Lancers&source=bl&ots=42RnhVa8wu&sig=OhJhuEeObBXlU-Pj9BMAreuFWKI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=i1ocVZH2A4StaYLRgqAK&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Tessel%20woods%20Lancers&f=false

    Heimdal book 'La Bataille De L'Odon' by Georges Bernage (in French) -
    http://www.abebooks.co.uk/Bataille-LOdon-Georges-Bernage-Editions-Heimdal/1678386764/bd

    "Caen - Anvil of Victory" by Alexander McKee (who served in 1 Canadian Army) (Thanks "allan125")

    "The 12th SS - Volume 1" - By Hubert Meyer
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zAbDS7uLVIMC&pg=PT266&lpg=PT266&dq=Tessel+woods+Lancers&source=bl&ots=02oz0wfcjE&sig=U0eKAiu45F-4_hPCnas8gt8wLBU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=i1ocVZH2A4StaYLRgqAK&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Tessel%20woods%20Lancers&f=false

    "Hill 112" by Major How - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hill-112-Cornerstone-Normandy-Campaign/dp/0921991819

    Stuart Hills "By Tank into Normandy" - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tank-Normandy-Cassell-Military-Paperbacks/dp/0304366404

    Dob Scott 'The Polar Bears from Sheffield' about the Hallamshire Battalion of the York and Lancs (who spent 3 weeks dug in around Tessel wood from the 26/27th June).

    Weblinks:

    There are a number of links and stories @:http://www.creullyclub.freeuk.com/frameset.htm That relate to the events at Rauray and around during June 1944 i.e. http://www.creullyclub.freeuk.com/feb12.htm in particular (1/2 way down the webpage - has fine detail on the Battle of Tessel Wood on the 26th June 1944)

    [hr]
    It's seemed most sensible to tackle this in 3 separate parts, the capture of Rauray (inc SRY), the holding of the Tessel Woods (inc 24th L) and the Defence of Rauray (in 24th L).

    I'm trying to get a good idea of troop placements and the actual "front line" for the dates 24th June - 4th July.

    During the Defence of Rauray for example a lot of the attacks seemed to involved German incursion into the west side of the village of Rauray, however significant troop placements to the south or the village were also being attacked (though perhaps later?) and I'm trying to work out whether the Germans got into the west of Rauray (either through the woods to the west at Le Manoir) or coming up just to the west, by first by-passing the troops in the south. The route up from the south looks like it might have been obscured from the allied troops south of Rauray, so it's a bit hard to be sure if the Germans were bypassing these south of Rauray troops in the first stage in order to get into the village behind them or if the attacks were more evenly across the whole front. (So whether it was a German attack to the west of Rauray then to the south, or attacks both west and south at once.)
     
  3. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Hi Rob,

    I see on the WW2Talk.com forum that one scene in the Critical Past footage here has been found at the D139/D173A crossroads above Rauray:

    <iframe id="map" scrolling="no" width="500" height="400" frameborder="10" src="http://www.bing.com/maps/embed/?v=2&cp=49.157172~-0.562137&lvl=17&sty=h&form=LMLTEW&emid=2330cce8-a631-416f-3aed-70e4fb3f4ae5"></iframe>
    [Live Map - Press F5 to Reset]​

    The work has been done in post #487, page 17 of the thread titled 'The Sherman Tank what an amazing vehicle!!'

    Do you know if any of the other scenes in the CP footage have been found?

    Thanks Rob,

    Pat
     
  4. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    No Pat, afraid not that one's completely new to me!

    Rm.
     
  5. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Hi Rob,

    First, here is a good map of Operation 'Epsom' from page 336, 'The Struggle for Europe' by Chester Wilmot. As can be seen, poor old Rauray is at the sharp end of the counter-attack by 9th SS Panzer on the 29th June:
    [​IMG]

    The Panther wreck location from the Critical Past footage is identified by the WW2Talk forum user m_kenny as being at the D139/D173A crossroads in this post thereon.

    Here is one of the stills showing this vehicle:
    [​IMG]

    Can't see the house from which the rubble came from though on the extract from frame 3108 of sortie NCAP_2TAF_400/0283 flown on the 23rd June:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk

    The circle around the crossroads marked by the PI (probably for 'Epsom' planning) doesn't help of course :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  6. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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    Here's one of the less well known photos of this wreck (there are plenty out there)

    This one was sold on eBay years ago, but it's a basic press photo.
    [img=850x640]http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q52/jagdpanzer4/Normandy%201944/521700038_o.jpg[/img]

    btw, M_Kenny is Michael Kenny, one of the best researchers I know (part of the old 'Research Core' of Missing-Lynx).
    Always willing to prove people wrong, especially those who like to believe in the Mythical Panzers or their Aces. I'm glad he's doing it, because spending your time on topics like that should not be necessary.
    I couldn't do it, but it might have to do something with his nationality... but I'll let you be the judge of that Pat ;-)
     
  7. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Thanks Niels,

    The building is still not any clearer though :D

    Am I right in thinking the the panther is facing east or south east? - the high trees at upper right in your photo can only be on these two lines if I am reading the scene correctly. If so then the building must have been in the north-east quadrant of the crossroads - in the field with the tethered grazing - bet Mr Kenny didn't spot that! :p

    We thrive on competition over here :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  8. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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    Let's keep you busy:

    [img=850x633]http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q52/jagdpanzer4/Normandy%201944/Norm%20Panth%2012SS%20204a.jpg[/img]

    [img=850x588]http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q52/jagdpanzer4/Normandy%201944/Norm%20Panth%2012SS%20204b.jpg[/img]
     
  9. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Hi Niels,

    Had a quick look at your two new photos at home this AM, but cannot see them now on my work PC as our network blocks certain sites.

    Has the village scene with the crushed vehicle (car?) been identified? I cannot see a match in Rauray; also unsure if the building on the left therein is a church or not :huh:

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  10. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    Lovely stuff, very impressive really. My particular quandary at the moment is how the Germans got into the west end of Rauray. I actually had to do a real double take on the recon (aerial) maps as the conspicuous place seemed so clearly to be the place written as Le Manoir on the maps of the time (but now seems to be Tessel in the map in post#3 above - and not the woods of that era 1944 are much less extensive now) and it as a place (Le Manoir) fitted the descriptions in the 24th L war diary so perfectly that it almost felt like that the 24th L were fighting in that place. It had the woods on the west and the orchards on the east. Rauray seems to have fields on the west and only a very small tree'd area to the east. Plus there was all those dug in infantry on the south of Rauray that would have had to be got past for the Germans to get past to go to the west of Rauray. Hence my wondering if there was some "concealed" route that they took that obscured them from the troop placements to Rauray's south. It's a tough one to map out, particularly as it's spread over several days and troops were necessarily moved muchly around. I've been trying to get people to fix dates to their posts for when they think particular events occurred. It's tricky too because of the differing accounts of what happened that you see our there, but we seem to be starting to see through the fog a little bit!

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  11. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Hi Rob,

    Don't know if it's any good to you, but I have just found at least three, possibly four wrecks on IGN cover flown in 1945. Can't show it here just now as I am not at my home PC, but if you follow the instructions in the 'How to Search for IGN Cover' thread, you can check the frame yourself this afternoon.

    The frame, marked '19.37 - 901V C.D.P.16' is the westernmost of the sortie and closest to Rauray. Not sure if all the wrecks are armour, but I presume they are if still in situ in 1945. I can positively make out one turretless tank. They are (mostly) on the eastern side of the D139, a few hundred yards south of the village.

    Have fun :D

    Pat
     
  12. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Sorry Rob,

    I should have said to select the 5th 1945 sortie from the left, using the horizontal scroll bar.

    I'll post an extract tonight in any case.

    Pat
     
  13. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    I've attached a rough and ready screenshot of the relevant frame location and of the turretless tank wreck below.

    Regards,

    Pat
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    Thanks Pat,

    I have a little map that shows just where a dozen or so of the German knocked out tanks map to and they all appear to be roughly in a line on the road between Brettevillette and south of Rauray - east, with prior to that some noted around Tessel woods and the little farmstead to its east nr. the n/s river Le Bordel Rau which they called Le Grande Ferme. There's supposed to have been some fighting too around Le Manoir (Tessel) when that was captured and should be some wrecks out on the west side of Rauray as that was where the Germans tried to "break-in". I'm guessing the tanks damaged nr. to roads and people's house would have been the first/easiest to clear up and so those left to pick-up later would necessarily have been out-and-about a bit further afield. It's nice to think of the locals though keeping some out of interest / cause celebre though - as it might have been a nice talking point to have one strategically placed in your village that passing tourists/ sight-see-ers in later times could take pictures of and climb over (bit dangerous maybe though!) - all that sharp metal and potentially unexploded shells. Must have been a pain too to plough around one of those things!

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  15. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    Probably my "yippee!" find: http://www.panzer-war.com/page45.html

    (Sadly "not the nicest" looking webpage though :( with odd coloured texts and rather a distracting "background" behind it all)

    Still, nice "quote" - "You don't see a brick wall spark like that"

    And plenty "more" to read about there...
     
  16. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    This map: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xzt_Obhgz7s/U53Ik-8Kh8I/AAAAAAAAHMg/8jTaAwygJfM/s1600/DSCF7122.JPG
    From here:
    http://devonwargames.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/rauray-1944-battlegroup-panzer-grenadier.html

    Picks out some thing of the idea that the British tanks were not involved initially in the German counterattack on Rauray. I'm not sure about this as I think that the 24th L were in defensive placement to the east, west and centre of Rauray.

    Additionally the following: http://www.rememberingscotlandatwar.org.uk/Accessible/Exhibition/212/I-became-a-veteran-very-quickly-The-Battle-for-Normandy
    About 60% down the webpage has for the German counterattack on the 27th June:

    "The Battle for Rauray" On D Day 50th Division had landed on Gold Beach and had pushed inland towards Bayeux.

    On 27th June British infantry and armour drove rapidly southwards to Rauray. This village commanded high ground. On 28th June Tyneside Scottish, part of 70th Brigade, successfully infiltrated Bretteville, south of Rauray. It was a hard fought battle. The British forces were made to withdraw from Bretteville. They reformed around Rauray, but the Rauray spur was in British hands.

    29th and 30th June were quieter days. On the morning of 1st July a German counter attack drove straight for Rauray, isolating the Tyneside Scottish to the south. There was fierce fighting as the Tyneside Scottish and 11th Durham Light Infantry struggled to repel the Germans.

    The Germans began to withdraw at 10.00am but an hour later they made another counter attack. The British line held but at midday the German attacked again. The 70th Brigade had been heavily hit and Tyneside Scottish lost 132 men."

    It also adds a bit about the infiltration of Bretteville too - which would advance the British further south in their movements than I had first supposed.

    It's a fascinating tale and one that seems quite confused now in a lot of accounts.
     
  17. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    I thought I'd post this link too - on the "Polar Bears" : http://www.irdp.co.uk/JohnCrook/polarbears.htm

    The Polar Bears became notorious to German troops and merited a vicious attack by Lord Haw Haw on the radio during the Normandy campaign. He called them 'The Polar Bear Butchers' and the insult formed the basis of a somewhat bloodthirsty 49th Divisional Christmas Card for 1944 remembering the battle of the Defence of Rauray.

    As the Xmas card near the bottom of the page is something to behold!

    Also: Bubbles Barker was responsible for redesigning the division's badge and his quote there was : "I want a defiant sign for my division, lift its head up and make it roar.'"

    All the best

    Rm.
     
  18. allan125

    allan125 Active Member
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    Retired - although it doesn't feel like it
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    And when the 49th (West Riding) Division finally settled in Germany they opened a unit pub called "The Butchers Arms"

    If you haven't read it already I can recommend "Caen - Anvil of Victory" by Alexander McKee (who served in 1 Canadian Army)

    Allan
     
  19. Ramiles

    Ramiles Active Member
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    Thanks Allan,

    I've added this booklink to : http://normandy.whitebeamimages.ie/forum/thread-358-post-3404.html#pid3404 (Post#2)
    Where I'm keeping "a little list" !!!

    There's plenty of 49th detail here: http://www.irdp.co.uk/JohnCrook/normandy.htm
    Including war diary accounts to read though. Useful as I'm very interested in the history of the events around the Tessel woods - as well - which are also covered there. Usual probs though with having to very carefully pick through reams of detail looking for specific overlaps with what I already know to provide context there. All the while whilst trying to understand what the British tanks were up to at that time from the point of view of the infantry there and match these to the accounts of the 24th L and SRY WD's too.

    "Breaking the Panzers" http://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Panzers-Kevin-Baverstock/dp/0750928956

    Is muchly recommended, but to be honest I'm still at the "plunging through short cuts" stage:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Martlet

    Just to try to get through the morass of the information bocage! and come out in one piece on the other-side!

    "German tanks and Panzergrenadiers swung north, 300 yards (270 m) behind B Company, where they were engaged by tanks of the 21st Lancers. Six German tanks were knocked out and the advance was stopped. Artillery was called for around Brettevillette."

    (Something a bit off with the 21st Lancers bit above maybe though ;-) wiki!!!!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Lancers
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24th_Lancers

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  20. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Hi All,

    I recently acquired s/h copies the two volume Stackpole Books work on the 12 SS Panzer Division by Hubert Meyer. Both volumes straddle the Division's time in Normandy and I see Rauray is mentioned at least once in Vol. 1.

    As soon as I have time to sit down and read it properly, I'll post anything relevant to Rauray here.

    Regards,

    Pat
     

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