replies on a few things. @ Charles. I don't think it was SOP to have a chalk number there on the engine. Chalk numbers on C-47s during glider missions was not uncommon. Sometimes itis pretty difficult to see the numbers on the C-47s, but it was done. Mostly somewhere on the fuselage. @ Patrick. We talked about the Waco CG-4A and Horsa part of the 438th before. Did you ever bump into times of release in the reports? That might be of help. Your theory sounds good. @ Neil. I'm still missing some kinds of chalk number writings for Normandy. The 438th, 436th and 435th show some similar writings that nables to ID a glider by Group. i wonder how the 441st gliders were marked. Can't recall t have seen an examle of their Normandy gliders. Just some thoughts.
Hi all, I was looking at British Pathe footage #1939.12, linkage here, and see a few more Horsa glider takeoffs that may be part of Mission Elmira, Serial 31, 438 TCG, 88 TCS. The descriptive information for the footage does not identify the location of the glider takeoffs. However, it does indicate that aerial views of beaches and bomb bursts, early on in the footage, occurred during the D-Day Invasion. This footage still shows C-47s lined up: We can pretty clearly see the M2 identifier on the C-47 that is in the center of the still. There are 3 Horsas that are shown taking off. The next two stills show the C-47 and then Chalk #41 which it is towing. I can't really make out the identifying M2 on this tow plane. Next is Horsa #41: C-47 and glider #42 combination, followed by a closer view of the Horsa: And finally, Horsa #43: At least here we can clearly see the chalk # and underlying tick mark.
Hi all, I was looking at British Pathe footage #1939.12, linkage here, and see a few more Horsa glider takeoffs that may be part of Mission Elmira, Serial 31, 438 TCG, 88 TCS. The takeoffs are filmed from the starboard side. The descriptive information for the footage does not identify the location of the glider takeoffs. However, it does indicate that aerial views of beaches and bomb bursts, early on in the footage, occurred during the D-Day Invasion. This footage still shows C-47s lined up: We can pretty clearly see the M2 identifier on the C-47 that is in the center of the still. There are 4 Horsas that are shown taking off. The images below are of the first three that are shown in the footage. The forth one is basically filmed from behind and doesn't show much. The next two stills show the C-47 and then Chalk #41 which it is towing. I can't really make out the identifying M2 on this tow plane. Next is Horsa #41: C-47 and glider #42 combination, followed by a closer view of the Horsa: And finally, Horsa #43: At least here we can clearly see the chalk # and underlying tick mark.
Hi all, I was looking at British Pathe footage #1939.12, linkage here, and see a few more Horsa glider takeoffs that may be part of Mission Elmira, Serial 31, 438 TCG, 88 TCS. The takeoffs are filmed from the starboard side. The descriptive information for the footage does not identify the location of the glider takeoffs. However, it does indicate that aerial views of beaches and bomb bursts, early on in the footage, occurred during the D-Day Invasion. This footage still shows C-47s lined up: We can pretty clearly see the M2 identifier on the C-47 that is in the center of the still. There are 4 Horsas that are shown taking off. The images below are of the first three that are shown in the footage. The forth one is basically filmed from behind and doesn't show much. The next two stills show the C-47 and then Chalk #41 which it is towing: I can't really make out the identifying M2 on this tow plane. Next is Horsa #41: C-47 and glider #42 combination, followed by a closer view of the Horsa: And finally, Horsa #43: At least here we can clearly see the chalk # and underlying tick mark. Does it look like these gliders could be part of the 438 TCG, 88 TCS that are shown in the AP Archive footage at the beginning of this thread? Without being able to see the identifier symbols on the C-47s that are actually towing the gliders maybe we can't say for sure. Charles
Hi Charles, As far as I know the glider take off scenes in your BP footage are all taken at Greenham Common, Serial 31, 'Elmira'. I note with interest still #363 which you posted above. Almost certainly this glider was carrying elements of the 307th Airborne Medical Company, 82nd Airborne Division on Mission 'Elmira'. Better still, thanks to the Kenny I. Knotts 'Brown' Album on the US Army Heritage and Education Center site here, we have ground photos of Elmira #43 embedded in a Normandy hedgerow: A while back, while doing work on another topic, Niels spotted an excellent candidate location for this glider at the north end of the field adjacent to the 'Keystone' Field. Below are some stills from the 'DZ Normandy' DVD produced by International Historic Films with the glider arrowed in yellow: You can just about see part of the tail section in the well known aerial photo below (circled red): For those readers not sure of where we are, the yellow arrow on the GE extract below shows the approximate location of Elmira #43: From Greenham Common to a field in Normandy Regards, Pat
Charles. This is mission Elmira. Take off of the 438th at Greenham Common Chalk #1 to #14 were 88th TCS (M2) Chalk #15 to #26 were 87th TCS (3X) Chalk #27 to #38 were 90th TCS (Q7) Chalk #39 to #50 were 89th TCS (4U)
Thanks Patrick, So it looks like #43 was an 89th TCS glider. Do we have a similar breakdown of chalk nos. for the 435th, 436th and 437th TCGs of Elmira? I know that they took off from different locations, and I guess that information may have been lost to some extent. Nevertheless, it seems it would be good info. to have. Charles [hr] Patrick, I do see that we have some of the chalk nos. for the 437th and the 435th in Philippe Esvelin's Forgotten Wings book. So, is any more available? Charles
Charles Elmira serial #30 http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropus/en_page.php?page=s30 serial #33 http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropus/en_page.php?page=s33 Sorry, never found for serial #32 All the information I got for the serials, A/C serials, chalk numbers, aircrews is available here http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropus/en_formation.php
Hi All, If you recall I made reference to Waco #4 being towed past the camera by C-47 'M2-O' (43-15174) in post #2. Below is a screen shot from that sequence: I now believe we have a photo of this Waco in Normandy, albeit very much the worse for ware, from the Kenny I. Knotts 'Brown' Album: While the motion blur in the footage makes a direct comparison of the number styling difficult, I think we are at a stage now where, as Neil states, one or two digit numbers with an underscore indicate gliders from serial 31, Mission Elmira. In any event, have a look at the two zoomed extracts below and see what you think: The sequence of photos in Kenny's album might also hint at a possible location, but I need to do some more work on that aspect. Regards, Pat