This is the best I can do with present knowledge. Much of it is rehashed from discussions on the defunct Battlebus forum, but also includes some recent nuggets. Thanks to Pat and Kevin for their excellent work and to Pat Elie and Hans van den Broek for many important documents. A List of Sources: Glider landing location map published in Rendezvous with Destiny. F/O John C. Ballintine statement in MACR. F/O John C. Ballintine reminiscence, c.1992 F/O Bill Jew reminiscence, published in Silent Wings at War, 1992 Alfred Sapa reminscence, c.1994 Accounts published in Koskimaki's D-Day with the Screaming Eagles, 1970 Pat's series of aerial recon photos Hans van den Broek's list of Mission Keokuk aircrew casualties F/O Robert Croft statement in MACR Pat Elie's list of which 101AB units were assigned to which Keokuk glider My Starting Assumptions: The landing location map is only partially correct. We don't know the source, but if it was compiled from various sources – tug pilot debriefings, glider pilot interviews, and perhaps 101AB interviews, it could contain best guesses and errors as well as accurate observations. Locations could also represent not only landing spots, but glider release points - particularly in the case where glider aircrew and passengers were MIA/POW. In particular, I believe the two Horsas shown on the map just south of Angoville actually landed farther north and the two Horsas shown east of Vierville landed farther west – in other words, as part of the Big Dipper group. The recon photos show nothing resembling a Horsa near either map location. Max glide distance for the Horsa is estimated at one mile from the low release altitude, so especially for the two Horsas shown on the map below Angoville, the Big Dipper is about the only game in town. The Keokuk release pattern was four across. This pattern is one of the choices shown in the diagram on Pat Elie's site. No documents establish this assumption as fact, but it is a critical point providing the basis for the theory. At least one change was made to which 101AB units were assigned to which chalk number. Pat Elie's list shows Chalk #10 had signal company troops on board, but F/O John C. Ballintine's later account describes a gun and jeep. Additionally, the load manifest for Chalk #13 shows radio equipment in one of the two trailers on board and I don't know if radios were part of T/O&E for AT gun crews, which is what Pat Elie's assignment list shows (sounds more like signal to me). OK, here we go: Mission Keokuk received ground fire soon after passing the coast. If this fire caused the mission to release from the four across approach formation (which called for a 2000' separation between left and right pairs), then the glider landing map makes some general sense. Two groups of what I conclude are mostly Keokuk Horsas can be seen in an arc from SW to NW of Hiesville and the other group which has been dubbed the Big Dipper west of Vierville. These two groups – if you accept my assumption above about the two pairs of Horsas shown on the map as landing east of D913 – total 13 gliders. The three Horsas shown on the map on a NW-SE line just south and west of SmdM are out of range to reach the Hiesville or Vierville areas of interest here. Since there are more than 13 Horsas in these two areas, a few of them must be from later missions. The remaining 16 Keokuk Horsas are shown on the map as landing above SMdM. The recon photos don't show anywhere close to 16 Horsas around there, which is a good case for the supposition that these may be release points. Did the ground fire lead to the rear half of the mission releasing 2+ miles early? Boy, it sure looks plausible. Corp. Martin Levak, part of an AT gun crew, came in on Chalk #31. He reported going to the 502 PIR command post which I recall was up near St. Martin de Varreville by the evening of June 6 (which, if correct, is another point in support of my theory that the rear half of Keokuk released way early). Links to other ground locations: F/O King in Chalk #2 reported seeing the right wing of Chalk #5 break off in landing. I strongly believe Chalk #5 is the Horsa just north of the Big Dipper group – just across the skirt of willows and missing part of its wing. I don't see a better candidate for the specific detail of right wing damage. F/O Bill Jew, Chalk #13, later said he saw anti-glider poles in his assigned landing field and “I remembered a wide, deep ditch paralleling the landing zone and dropped into it, all the while taking intense ground fire.” He also said he rolled to a stop (so the landing gear survived intact). My best guess is this is the Horsa in the dry creek bed NNE of the Dippers. It appears to still have all three of its wheels – a bit of a rarity among Keokuk gliders. F/O Croft in Chalk #14 reported he saw F/O Jew and F/O Odahowski (both of Chalk #13) “among the captives being marched away.” Croft and his pilot, F/O Griffith, were wounded and captured. Griffith is listed as MIA, but burial records show he died June 6. Does this mean he either died in enemy hands or in No Mans Land? At any rate, this places Chalk #13 nearby. Could Chalk #14 be the Horsa in the large open field west of my proposed location for Chalk #13? F/O Beale from Chalk #11 later reported that F/O Ballintine told him that he (Ballintine) also saw Jew and Odahowski “taken prisoners and marched away.” This places Chalk #10, 13, and 14 in the same area. By my reckoning, the best position from which to see Jew and Odahowski marched away as prisoners is for them to have landed north of Ballintine and Croft. We know Ballintine was taken to SCdM – and it makes sense to move any POW to the rear. The primary piece of circumstantial evidence is the distribution of Keokuk aircrew MIA/POW (WIA or KIA could happen anywhere). There is clearly a concentration in the front half of the left element (that is, Chalk #1, 2; 5, 6; 9, 10; 13, 14). Five of these gliders (#5, 6, 10, 13, and 14) account for 100% of the mission's MIA/POW among Keokuk aircrew. Sooo, Chalk #2 is close enough to see Chalk #5 lose a wing and #5 is in the group losing aircrew POWs, so add Chalk #2 to the Big Dipper group. I would also place Chalk #1 in the Big Dipper group – or at least in the area, as it was in the lead and farthest left in the approach. Could Chalk #1 and 2 have gotten down before the enemy reacted in strength (co-pilot of #1 KIA; pilot of #2 WIA)? H1 and H2 are farthest west among the Dippers - did their early arrival and those few yards provide just enough margin for some to escape? Did 101AB elements on the ground escort crew and passengers out of danger, but had to give up on later arriving gliders? Chalk #9's position on approach was on the left end of the third row. Could it (instead of Chalk #14) be the Horsa in the large field north of the Dippers – or is #9 another Dipper? Sapa and Ballintine in Chalk #10 should have been right behind Chalk #9, but remember, Ballintine said he and Sapa “circled again.” He also said they landed in “a small field with 5-6 gliders in it already.” Could the small field refer to the area not poled and thus suitable for landing– rather than the overall acreage? The only area near LZ E with that many gliders on the ground is the Big Dipper group – unless you want to argue for the Pond Field. But then how would the enemy mount a platoon sized assault with lots of shooting, then escort prisoners past Hiesville without drawing a response from 101AB Division HQ? Pat's recent work suggesting Chalk #16 is the Horsa in the Pond Field fits this scenario as #16 would have been on the right end of the fourth row – so on the north end of the formation. Its mate – Chalk #15 – could also be in the Pond Field (the map shows two Keokuks up that way). I have semi-convinced Kevin and myself that Chalk #8 could be the crash site just east of Route de Rabey two fields east of Pratt Field (though that's not a perfect geographical location for my theory). Perhaps Chalk #7 could be in the north end of Pratt Field. And Kevin's and Pat's work on the location of Chalk #3 and 4 (the latter delivering Kevin's father – good job F/O Goulden and Blalock!) has eroded my earlier skepticism (except for the physically impossible part about Chalk #3 displacing the hedgerow). The position of #3 and #4 on the right side of the first row fits pretty well with the proposed landing spot adjoining the Pratt Field. Sgt. John McCarthy, 101AB Division HQ, in Chalk #4 later described hearing shouts and shots coming from “the glider fields” as he made his way towards Hiesville. Seems to me if he had been referring to his landing spot, he would have described it as “behind us” or “where I had just landed.” Instead I believe he was referring to the Big Dipper group – somewhere around 2/3 miles from his estimated position. McCarthy goes on to say that medical and HQ personnel were being captured there. Remember also that Ballintine later estimated it was 45 minutes after his landing that the enemy attacked in force. Does this give us a timeline for McCarthy's harrowing journey after landing? Having some professional experience in soil mechanics I can say with certainty that no Horsa moved any hedgerow – not even an inch. Even Shermans with dozer blades were found ineffective and, further, aircraft are constructed as lightly as possible – not as battering rams. Since McCarthy made no mention of climbing through the hedgerows, I conclude his group skirted the inside border of the field he landed in to stay in the shadows and exited onto Route de Rabey through the gate Kevin located in the NE corner of his landing field. A new small piece of the puzzle is that LT Alfred R. Latzke in Chalk #5 served as an intel officer in the 101AB, which would make him almost certainly part of Div HQ (I suppose he could have been in regimental S-2) – seeming to confirm that part of the glider assignment list. Chalk #14 is listed as carrying medical personnel. So, Chalk #5 and 14 carried the type of personnel referred to by McCarthy, making it plausible that these two Horsas were in the Big Dipper group. If, as I believe, Ballintine and Sapa in Chalk #10 are part of the Big Dippers, which Horsa was theirs? Sapa described crossing a six foot deep ditch just before landing, a ditch which they soon discovered contained enemy troops. Ballintine described scraping trees just before landing and then bellying in and smashing the landing gear and bottom of the plane. Though H6 might more easily fit Ballintine's description of “circling again” (and thus approaching from a more northerly direction), I believe the damage to the rear of H4 shown in the ground photos makes it the best candidate for Chalk #10. Did Sapa and Ballintine then move along the N-S ditch to the shirt of willows across the field to the north and there make their last stand – away from the distinct ditch to the SW of H4? That's my best guess at this point. I would appreciate comments, challenges, etc. Of course any other tidbits could be extremely helpful - whether they support my theory or not!
Hi Don, The extract below from NCAP_ACIU_US7GR_1857_8010 (12th June 1944) should help readers old and new to orientate themselves to the various locations you refer to: Vierville (H11/H12) 'Big Dipper' Group (E11/E12/F11/F12) Sainte Marie du Mont (K6) Hiesville (E8) Pratt Field (C8/C9/D9) Pond Field (D6) I have to mull over your observations as it's taken 28 layers in PS to produce the red grid and I need a cup of tea - or maybe something stronger A few quick observations first; where do you think my Ballintine Field (H9/I9) fits into your observations? Also what about the Boutteville Marshes (D2/E2/F2)? Regards, Pat
Thanks for the grid map, Pat. Will be a big help to newcomers who haven't figured out our shorthand references. Before I forget, let me add a couple of links to Mark Bando's forum. For those new to the subject, Bando has been researching the 101AB for 30+ years and in the process been a true friend to both history and those vets. He gets more excited about paratroopers than glidermen, but his work deserves applause. http://www.101airborneww2.com/warstories6.html Scroll down the page to Mark's plotting from an overlay found in the effects of LTC Ben Weisberg, 377 PFAB. The shown Horsa locations resemble the version of the map in RwD except that it cuts off a bit too far north to show the two Horsas just below Angoville and omits six other Horsas, mainly from the group above SMdM (I haven't devoted any effort to matching up Waco locations). Weisberg parachuted in so he had no personal knowledge of glider landing spots other than when he passed them on the ground. The obvious implication is that he acquired the overlay through official channels (doesn't mean it is error-free, of course). http://triggertimeforum.yuku.com/topic/10053/Where-are-the-glider-tow-ropes This link to Bando's forum discusses George Koskimaki's account of a glider tow rope landing near him at 101 AB Division HQ around 2100 on June 6. Besides finding Koskimaki an interesting figure, this establishes the path of one tug or glider. May be a clue for future discoveries. As to Field 'E' - the easiest ID to speculate about would be one of those three Keokuk Horsas shown on the maps just south to west of SMdM. Thr large bunch above SMdM would also likely be within gliding range - and have the added benefit of being in the opposite direction of the ground fire to the north that partially disrupted Keokuk's approach to the planned release point. Looks like six Horsas altogether in the region. One, of course is the well known burned LJ-135 from 82AB on June 7. Later Horsa missions would have been attracted to fields already containing Horsas - since it proved the field was large enough to land another Horsa in and maybe gave some assurance that the field was not mined (or that anti-glider poles weren't there). If correct, that possible mixing complicates our job. Not to relitigate the case, but our most recent narrative addition, the Sapa reminiscence, with his description of crossing a six foot deep ditch just before landing, further convinces me that the Big Dipper field is the right spot. I don't see how the ditch in Field 'E' could be crossed while in flight and then have a Horsa end up where we see them. As before, the presence of enemy forces in the neighborhood and your earlier analysis concerning the proximity of a road conforming to F/O Ballintine's account remain as good points in favor of Field 'E.' With the Battlebus crash, we didn't get a chance to fully discuss Sapa, so if you've had any further thoughts, I would be pleased to hear them.
Hi Don, This might not be anything, but I note a jeep track around the headlands of field M2/N2 and I am pretty sure there are objects in the field as well. I am wondering if the Keokuk map might be off set slightly to the south: If you shunt the purple circled Horsas northwards slightly, would not the three circled blue arrive in field M2 :huh: It would also mean that the Horsa marked 'E3' we see at the crucifix D14/D913 crossroads might now fit some of the Keokuk markers. Just a thought and I could be wrong Pat
Forgive my feeblemindedness, Pat, but is M2 the field where it looked like somebody dropped a 100 lb. bag of flour? Which recon image was that? I still haven't reviewed the images you located of that area to look for Horsas. At D14/D913 the ground photos showing E3 and R15 marked on Horsas certainly look appealing as Keokuk candidates as the style doesn't match what we have identified for other missions. Guess we'll never know for sure unless we discover the source document. I had purposely limited my first attempt to trying to tie written accounts to recon photo locations. With potentially so many Horsas up there (if you buy my theory) plus the possibility that Horsas from other missions could also be amongst them, I find myself just as muddled about those as I had been previously about the Hiesville area (not that I have that area all nailed down). On another thread you posted the 82AB glider map from their Neptune historical report. Any idea what the parent document's formal title is (the map is listed as an annex)? In full fantasy mode I couldn't help but wonder if the 101st's historical report might have been overlooked (in favor of ops reports). That's a lot to expect, but I am just beginning to get a grasp on the administrative requirements of WWII ground units. Surely with the interest in the 101AB, somebody has turned over every page of their files at NARA. Now I learn that extra copies of 101AB WWII reports are at the Eisenhower Library in Kansas - including a couple with descriptions that sound something like this 82AB historical report. Bad news is that that library isn't set up for mail-in copy requests (just snooty academics visiting to look at Ike's presidentail papers). Maybe somebody from nearby will read this note in a bottle and give the library a look sometime.
Hi Don, The field you refer to is off the grid to the North. I'll dig out the screenshots tonight. It was a still frame of footage shot from a C-47 during a re-supply mission. Can't recall that we tagged the Horsa marked 'R15' to the D14/D913 crossroads. I don't have it to hand, but is that the one sitting correctly on it's three wheels with the bunch of cattle and horses around it? I am not as familiar with 101st records at that of the 'All Americans' but many others are. Have you tried posting a request on Trigger Time? The Eisenhower Library sounds to be a place worth having a look in. Unless I win the lottery, I am afraid I cannot oblige any time soon. Regards, Pat
During a recent Internet search, I stumbled upon Normandy: A Glider Pilot’s Story by George E. Buckley, a Flight Officer with the 74th Troop Carrier Squadron, 434th TCG. F/O Buckley was a Waco pilot in Chalk # 49 of the Chicago Mission. His account provides an excellent overview of his Normandy experience during the period of June 3-9, 1944. http://www.71stsos.com/normandygeobuckley.html At the end of his account, F/O Buckley provides a summary of several other Chicago Mission chalks. His discussion concerning Chalk #5 of the Chicago Mission leads to the mention of Chalk #5 of the Keokuk Mission: "Glider No. 5, carrying one of the division radios, flown by F/O Ketchmun and Baldwin, aborted over England shortly after take-off. Both pilots could not get back to the field in time to get another glider and catch up with the formation. Later in the day, June 6,they flew in the second series of Horsa, also No. 5, from Aldermaston, carrying troopers of the 327th Glider Infantry. They landed at 9:00pm in daylight, ripped a wing off in a rough landing, and all, after exiting the glider,were captured by the enemy." From Normandy: A Glider Pilot’s Story If you recall, Keokuk Chalk #5 is one of Don’s candidates for the Big Dipper Group. Another section of the summary describes F/O Buckley’s debrief after his return to Aldermaston: "The ship finally got us back to England, and eventually we arrived back at our home base at Aldermaston where they rolled out the red carpet for us. I guess they didn't think many of us would survive, and they couldn't do enough for us. After interrogation by the base intelligence officer, and after we had pinpointed on aerial photos our landing spots, we were all given three day passes." From Normandy: A Glider Pilot’s Story Could these annotated aerial photographs be the ultimate source documents for later glider landing location maps such as those found in the Koskimaki and Bando books? If these photographs still exist and could be found, they would surely answer a lot of questions. R/Kevin
Yes indeed they would Kevin. My guess is that these photographs ended up in private hands; I recall reading somewhere recently about a recon pilot, not being able to find any good German souvenirs at his ALG strip, deciding to take home all the master prints from his sorties. The amount of stuff now gathering dust in attics must be phenomenal Regards, Pat
Great work, Kevin. You do realize that this just fuels the fire on my crackpot theories. Pat has a point - unless the original aerial(s) that were marked up got reproduced, it/they coud be anywhere. If the 434th intel officer did it on his own, perhaps it was his own souvenir. However, if it was done per orders, there's a chance the mark-ups were reproduced and submitted with a report. I recall that the PIR officers upon returning to Britain in July were asked to mark their landing spots, so it has always intrigued me over whether the Glider officers were also quizzed. Since gliders carrying equipment had space for only a few troops, maybe the AB divisions didn't think the effort would be likely to produce meaningful results. That, of course, would lead me back to theorizing that the tug pilots would be a reliable source - they knew how to navigate by landmarks and they had studied the aerials during planning. If copies were made and distributed through channels, finding them would involve understanding the chain of command. Pat Elie has examined more TCG reports than anyone, so maybe we can lean on him once again. Pat, you already said the 434 TCG report contained nothing of value about the operation, but could I ask you to look again - this time to see if there is any routing/distribution info on the reports? Have you looked at any higher echelon reports - or any G-2 reports at any level? Who did the commander of the 434th report to? We know that probably somewhere there are recon photo interpretation reports - but we mostly thought of these as pre-D-Day. Having seen a few from Italy, I can say they got marked up in grease pencil to show enemy positions - and these photos would look somewhat similar. If these Aldermaston mark-ups went into the intel/photo recon channel, maybe they do still exist. Also, mark-ups might[/b] have been useful to G-1 in helping Graves Registration narrow down search areas. The one known solid fact before Kevin's find was that Ben Weisburg got the info from somewhere for his overlay that Bando later copied. Weisburg was PFAB and had no connection to Aldermaston or the 434th TCG. This suggests that he got his overlay through official channels. If Bob Ballintine sees this, he needs to understand he just inherited another project. Much can be learned at NARA from face to face discussions with the experts that could never be gotten by sending in requests. Maybe we'll get lucky when he gets to visit NARA and someone there will have discovered the secret hidey hole - or at least know the best places to hunt. Tilting at yet another windmill, maybe I should switch my focus to Market Garden.
Hi guys, I've seen overlays and such things for Market Garden and Varsity. I have not seen any such for Normandy. The major problem with overlays is...they are giving correct and false information. on researching Varsity, I found landing spots of gliders on the LZ, while those gliders never reached the LZ. Positions are given correctly, or false. Some gliders marked on maps did indeed land at that spot. Others marked on maps did land elsewhere. I've seen reportes where the pilot and co-pilot of the same aircraft give different location where they speak speak of what would be one and the same location. As with the map used by Bando...it needs a lot of research to be able to put everything out correct. Finding different sources and enables to put the dots together. It all depends on availibilety of information (such as the aerial photos, which is one part that helps in the research). With my main field of research being the Troop Carriers in the Holland and Rhine operations, I have not chacked much of the Normandy related files. Hans www.airbornetroopcarrier.com
Don For the moment the reports I found on microfilms are the diaries of squadrons, groups, wings and IX TCC. They are not established the same way with great differences between them. Sometime you have just two or three pages for one month and on another reel, for another squadron or group, you can find 50 pages for the month. After that you have the quality of the reel which is from excellent to unreadable. In some reels (i.e for the 437 TCG) you have the glider pilots interrogation reports which gave a good information like their landing coordinates. Generaly the chain for the reports is squadron -> group -> wing -> IX TCC Below you have the entries for june in the 434 TCG diary. [attachment=33] [attachment=34] [attachment=35] [attachment=36] [attachment=37] [hr] [attachment=38] You can see in the diary that glider pilot interrogation was conducted... but they are not in the diaries I own. PS : for the moment I don't own the diaries for 71st and 72nd TCS
The only interrogation reports that I have found so far are related to Varsity, for 4 1/2 Troop Carrier Groups on Holland and one TCG for Normandy. So far, those in Squadron/Group diaries are found as those reels have been checked. Some (parts of) Wing reports are also checked. Hans
A few data points in the diary above add to the discussion in this thread as well as the Pratt Crash Site and Road to Lecaudey Farm threads. From Page #4 of the attachment above: (In reference to the Chicago Mission) “The T-signal set up by pathfinder paratroopers was not on the same field as planned. This resulted in several crashes of CG-4’s.” (In reference to the Keokuk Mission) “LT Victor Warriner, glider officer from the 72nd Squadron, had organized a number of the glider pilots from the Chicago Mission and had felled trees to clear a path for the Horsas. He was there with these same pilots to meet the incoming Keokuk lift and form a cordon of fire that enabled a number of crews to get out safely despite enemy action.” (Also in reference to the Keokuk Mission) “A few Horsas came down in the middle of a German counter-attack and their crews are still missing. Most of the remaining crews from the second lift joined those from the first and returned to the Command Post.” Don, this last reference may support your theory about the left flank of a German counter-attack headed toward Saint Marie du Mont on the evening of June 6th sweeping through the Big Dipper field and possibly the SE corner of the field south of the Pratt Memorial. As you have suggested, this action and the taking of American prisoners in the Big Dipper field may be what my father heard as he made his way towards Hiesville, possibly when he was somewhere along Route de Rabey. (Again, this is assuming our theory about the probable landing sites for Chalks #3 and 4 is correct.) The data points all come together... maybe. R/Kevin
Wow! This is quite a Brain Trust that has assembled to look for Keokuk answers. Thanks to all. Hans, your point is well taken. Always worth remembering that just because a single source is all we have, doesn't mean it's correct. Somehow those guys were more interested in staying alive than satisfying our historical curiosity. Assuming the RwD glider map was compiled (at least in part) from tug pilot reports, I have long been bothered by the two Horsas shown below Angoville. Were those release points? getting that location confused with a similarly shaped field nearby? or how about a pilot who just wanted to mark something down to get his pass to town? Unfortunately we are stuck with humans as our best source. Pat, thanks for posting the 434th report. Looks possible from that description of difficulties in getting the reports done, that our precious mark-ups might never have been submitted. That could also explain the lack of pilot debriefs. (Hope I'm wrong there!). I'm not sure of how the parachute landing maps got created - just the fact that they exist. From your report, sounds like everybody was disgusted at the conflicting reporting requirements (well, it was the army after all). I have read and tried to comprehend the ETO records retention procedures on fold3.com, but it is a general procedure and can only show there was an attempt. At NARA there are printed finding aids for parts of the WWII material - which had to come either from the packing lists prepared in the ETO prior to shipping the records home or, perhaps, made up by the army when they turned the records over to the National Archives (about 1948, I believe). I have recently begun to learn about post-VE-Day redeployment and deactivation. All the GIs wanted to get home and the army wanted that too, so lots of stuff just got dumped. Mark Bando relates a story from some 101st vets of them having bonfires of records. What are the chances they strictly followed the records retention requirements? Just have to hope that the reports got finished and multiple copies submitted. In NARA's somewhat useful online catalog there are a couple of interesting entries: IX Troop Carrier Command: History Notes (Neptune) 1944 IX Troop Carrier Command: Special Report - Neptune 1944 IX Troop Carrier Command: Glider Pilot Reports 1944 I believe Bob asked about the last one when he was at NARA and was told it contained nothing on Normandy, but it may be of interest to you, Hans, if you're not already familiar with it. The other two are tempting, but, Pat, if you have already seen these, I'll forget about them. On fold3.com there are some of the ground forces and army service forces historical reports. I never knew that units had a historical officer, but they did. These reports vary in length and quality, but there is an occasional gem in the form of an original document to be found. Don't know if those for the IX TCC have been tapped. Kevin, good observations. Any theory on the location of the tree cutting? If unlimited resources were available, comparing pre- and post-D-Day aerials could possibly provide an answer (especially if both views were taken when the shadows were long). We still need to find a solid account of someome who landed in the Pond Field to test my guess that those guys didn't get shot at very much. Even if the German attack plan to the north did not include an assault on Hiesville, they still needed to prevent U.S. forces there from maneuvering through the large open fields in the Dipper area and cutting them off from SCdM by swinging east. Does anyone know what Willy Stenzel's job was - rifle squad, mortar, MG, etc. Did he just happen to be where he was - or was he there because of the elevation (FO or mortar crew perhaps)? Keep up the good work.
I found this site with a bunch of random photos from Normandy. Includes some shots of gliders, both crashed and intact sitting amoung the cattle. None of them are labeled so not much help there but a number have clear aircraft markings. https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=d771945a4051b02e&id=D771945A4051B02E%21533&authkey=!AODCuneQK_Ma9Q8
Thanks Dale, This collection is also available in the Flickr 'PhotosNormandie's Photostream' section. I recall staying up until 4:30am one morning running the slideshow Regards, Pat
Here's an account by Sam Gibbons, 501 PIR HQ, describing the arrival of Mission Keokuk. It was written no earlier than the '80s. Gibbons served in Congress for decades and even though he garbles a fact here and there, this gives us another glimpse into Keokuk. Is he correct in describing a Horsa II with the hinged nose? Anyone know if Keokuk used any? Also, he says the 501 had six jeeps in Keokuk. Pat Elie's list shows only four Horsas for 501 vehicles. Looks like a single Horsa could handle the weight of two jeeps, but not sure about floor space. Elie's list shows Chalk #28-31 carrying 501 vehicles - that is a bit inconvenient for my earlier theory about Hiesville area Horsas consisting mainly of gliders from the first half of the serial. Was there some switching of glider assignments after Elie's list was prepared? Koskimaki shows Chalk #31 carrying an AT gun and jeep - not a regimental HQ jeep. Maybe it makes sense if somehow the AT gun was attached to RHQ? Haven't I read where a pair of AT guns was attached to each 101AB regiment? http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent1/?file=dday_0004p7 "I headed immediately for the glider landing zone just south of Hiesville, I got there between 6:15 and 7:00 o'clock p.m. Right on time the scheduled C47's, towing two gliders apiece, appeared coming in from a northerly direction. As soon as they were in sight of the drop zones the gliders cut loose and began to land. What a mess! The fields were small, and there were still some of those anti-glider, anti-parachute poles in the field. There was small arms fire from the Germans directed toward the planes and the gliders. The gliders began to dive for the fields. Some hit short; some hit long; all of them hit hard. Some sheared wings; others ran into each other, but somehow they got down. I had seen glider landings before and knew that glider riders and pilots really earned their pay in that branch of the service, as those fellows did coming in that evening. I am sure some were killed, but we couldn't stay around to count bodies. I am sure there were a lot of miracles on D-Day, but my own second miracle occurred when that glider assigned to carry my jeep landed right on time and right at the designated spot. I wasn't more that 50 feet from the spot where the glider landed -- certainly within shouting distance -- the glider nose opened and my jeep rolled out. I called the driver's name; he recognized me and drove right over." Assuming the essential details are correct, which Horsa near Hiesville is the one Gibbons describes? I think the hinged nose description is shaky - wouldn't they have just left it open after removing the cargo - and thus be visible to us in the recon photos? Gibbons moved north of the Chateau Colombieres immediately after the Horsa landing, so he can't tell us anything about later events south of Hiesville.
Hi Don, Interesting account from Keokuk. My understanding is that double tow was not used in Normandy and I doubt if it's even possible with Horsas. The description of the nose opening also appears to imply a Waco rather that the mark II Horsa. I suspect, but cannot be sure that the British kept the mark IIs for themselves. Regards, Pat
:huh: ??????????????? I have also his book... and, sorry, but I think he is wrong! We all have seen the photograph of planes and gliders taken at Aldermaston : 32 C-47s and 32 gliders. The war diary of the 434 show, in annex #2 to Field order #1 the numbers of planes, from which squadron, assigned for each mission. Serial 29 Gp Hq : 2 planes - CN#1 & 3 72 TCS : 10 planes - CN#2 & 4-12 / 8 Horsas - CN#1-8 71 TCS : 0 plane / 8 Horsas - CN#9-16 73 TCS : 12 planes - CN#13-24 / 8 Horsas - CN#17-24 74 TCS : 8 planes - CN#25-32 / 8 Horsas - CN#25-32 The standard glider formation was used : Flight of two two ships elements echeloned to the right. One plane of Gp Hq was the lead plane of each group of 2 columns. To my knowledge, the double glider tow was only used for Varsity.
Double-tow, only used in Europe during Varsity by the 435th, 436th, 437th and 439th TCG. Also used in the Pacific, but that is far away from Normandy. Seen numerous stories of double-tow on Holland. Hans