The Horsas at the crossroads of d115 & d913

Morning Neil,

There is footage on one of Tyler Albert's Combat Reels DVDs of intact Horsas standing in a field and, IIRC, it is immediately preceded by footage shot at the crossroads of E3 and R5. I'll see if I can find it tonight - might be on the 101st disk if anyone has it.

Regards,

Pat

 

Neil,

The Horsa I am thinking of, tail still attached, is shown in a field with the footage being shot from a gateway with two ash poles acting as a gate!

Regards,

Pat

 

Hi All,

While working on various glider related threads recently, I had cause to look at some 'old friends' in Tyler Albert's '101st US Airborne Division / Invasion of Normandy' DVD. The three screenshots, A-C from the footage shown below comprise four distinct Horsas and one Waco:

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Looking at 'C' firstly, I finally found a tie on the treeline to the staged footage of the glider troops exiting E3. A screenshot from this footage is shown below with the same treeline marked with the yellow arrows:

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This of course begs the question - if screenshot C from the Conmbat Reels DVD is showing E3 and R15, two gliders we now know very well, does screenshots A and B show the gliders in the adjoining field to the west?

Our view from the ever fruitful frame 8010 of sortie US7GR/1857, flown on the 12th June is also well know by now, but due to the small scale, all that we can be reasonably sure of is that there are two gliders, probably Horsas, in the adjoining field to the one which holds E3 and R15:

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Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk​

Post 6th June cover of the 'E3 Crossroads' is extremely rare beyond the above frame, and consequently I had kind of parked the hunt to confirm screenshots A and B yesterday. However, I had forgotten about three frames which turned up in a search result received from NCAP back in May 2011 from a sortie flown by a PR Mosquito of No. 140 Squadron, RAF on the 17th June. The reason for the search I cannot recall, and if I do recall correctly, neither the sortie index plot nor any of its frames are digitised in the NCAP database. The sortie is NCAP_ACIU_140_0334. The extract below is from a low resolution copy of frame 3126, part of the PDF search result document:

Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk​

I am pretty sure there is now a Waco visible beside the western hedgerow of this field. Note also there appears to be a gap in the northern hedgerow of the D913 road which might be similar to the one we see in screenshot B at the tail of the nearest glider. I would also bet my bottom dollar that the timber 'square' in the foreground was used in the marking out of the figure 'F' in the adjacent crossroads field.

What say you guys to the two line-of-sights indicated by the yellow arrows A and B - do they match the views we see in screenshots A and B from Tyler's footage?

Thanks,

Pat

 

Hi Pat,

I agree with your conclusion!
I do disagree with what you see as a gap in photo 'B' under the tail of the nearest horsa. What I think you are seeing is the canopy of the horsa in the background with the broken nose wheel or nose down into the ground. Much like it is pictured in photo 'A'.

John

 

Sorry John,

I should have been more clear; the gap I see is above the nose down Horsa, directly opposite the trailing edge of the near Horsa's rudder.

Regards,

Pat

 

Should have asked...

Has anyone come across a better version of this footage showing these two new Horsas and the Waco? I tried enlarging the chalk numbers but they are just that little bit below par to read on this version.

Thanks,

Pat

 

Hi Pat,

Oh, You mean the gap in the tree line... My mistake
John

 

Hi Neil,

It could be an 'E' series of numbers alright...funny thing; I cannot recall seeing this footage in the PhotosNormandie YouTube Channel...or anywhere else for that matter. Anyone seen another version anywhere?

I would be interested in acquiring a high resolution copy of either frame 3125 or 3126, sortie 140/334 covering the crossroads. There is a lot of interesting stuff in both...all of the Brecourt battery and a good part of the Holdy site, along with my candidate field in post #21 of the 'German PoWs with French Guide' thread. Below is the search result PDF which includes low resolution copies of those two frames:

<iframe seamless="seamless" src="https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://www.normandy.whitebeamimages.ie/gliders/e3_crossroads/17937_ecoqueneauville-sebeville-bouteville.pdf" width="100%" height="590px"></iframe>​

In fact it's such an obscure sortie that it might be no harm at all to have a copy of the Sortie Index Plot to see if the 140 Squadron 'Mossi' spent much time over the American airborne sector...probably just passing through to targets further south.

In any event, I will have to hold off until my credit card comes back on an even keel after Christmas

Regards,

Pat

 

Hi Pat,

If your looking for opinions on which frame, I would lean towards 3126 because it includes all of the Brecourt battery area. I thought 3125 cut across the very top of the Brecourt battery hedgerows, and didn't include enough of the Holdy battery.

Any other opinions for Pat?

 

Hi John,

Yes, with the crossroads in both, and the whole of the Brecourt battery only covered by 3126, that's probably the one to go for.

However, it might be best to have a look at the Sortie Index Plot first, just in case there are more frames from other passes over the area. I have just completed an inquiry for this document on the NCAP site. Its definitely not digitised, so cannot be viewed with a paid account. Let's see what they will look for in terms of cost to scan it...only asked for a 300dpi copy which will do us fine for checking the frame locations.

Cost should not be much more that £30+VAT plus a 'pull fee' to retrieve it from the paper archive :dodgy:

Regards,

Pat

 

Hi Neil,

Yes, there is D-Day cover from at least one sortie; that of US30/4078, frame 1004. A downsized version is shown below:

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Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk​

The newly discovered Waco is missing, so it cannot be from either 'Chicago' or 'Detroit'. I have a high resolution version of this frame, but my usage license from NCAP precludes me from distributing it beyond posting extracts on the Forum. Its a an interesting frame however, showing shadows from individuals standing at the crossroads, traffic flowing through and almost the entire extent of the gun battery field at Brecourt.

I downloaded the ORB for No. 140 Squadron last night from the National Archives and it shows seven sorties flown on the 17th June. The two best fits for Sortie 140/334 appear to be those flown either by S/L Longley with his navigator F/L Riley in MM 250 -or- P/O Ardley and his navigator F/Sgt McLaren in MM 251:

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It appears both aircraft made a long, east to west run across the five invasion beaches and then some, so the three frames from sortie 140/334 that we know about in the NCAP search results, which ever aircraft flew it, are probably from a single pass over the American airborne sector captured on the way up to the NE tip of the Cotentin.

BTW, does anyone know what "Sp." means in front of the camera's focal length?

Regards,

Pat

 

Hi Jeffrey,

Always feel free to post your thoughts!

Can you let us have the Fold3 link to this photo please?

Thanks,

Pat

 

Hi Pat,
I think Jeffrey is referring to this one : https://www.fold3.com/image/251/35472587

John