Allan, The date of the 24th July comes from American pickup of German reports issued after Rommel's death in November/December 1944. To be fair to the Americans, they appear to have checked for candidates amongst their pilots based on what they believed at the time was the correct date for the attack. Regards, Pat
Thanks Pat Nice press cutting, and who can blame them for claiming such an exalted person. Whoever did it removed a key person from the battlefield at an important time, fortunately for the Allie's. Cheers Allan
Hey Guys, Yes, I wouldn't rely on the date so much, news back then took time, and was often wrong. The newspaper clipping posted from December of that year has him flying P-47's. Miller's squadron had transitioned to P-51's in April of 44. Which I think led to confusion. PW 2800 sounds a lot different than a RR Merlin. The German's probably mistook the unfamiliar P-51 for a Spitfire from the sound and the similar frontal profile. And I agree, doesn't matter who got him, as much as taking him out of the fight, and unable to lead a defence. From Wikipedia: "The 352nd Fighter Group was a unit of the Eighth Air Force that was located in the European Theater of Operations during World War II.[1] [2][3] The unit served as bomber escort, counter-air patrols, and attacking ground targets. It initially flew P-47 Thunderbolt aircraft before converting to P-51 Mustang in April 1944." "The 352nd Fighter Group participated in the invasion of Normandy in June 1944 with missions to strafing the beaches and other positions and dive-bomb enemy communications. In July 1944, the group supported the allied breakthrough in the Battle of Saint-Lô and in September 1944 supported Operation Market Garden in the Netherlands." Steve
Who got Rommel - the gift that keeps on giving! Whoever got him, of whatever nationality, did us all a favour, that's for sure.
Hi All, Has anyone been able to tie the Miller footage to 'just south of Namur, Belgium (VJ9509)? I have been trying to obtain aerial cover of the area from the 1940s/50s but have so far failed. Thanks, Pat
Hello there In related news... This passed me by last year but the table upon which the wounded Rommel was treated was "discovered" in an old folks' home in Livarot Livarot : la table du maréchal Rommel fait des émules
Hi All, Its been a while but this thread still has me intrigued. I have today ordered a companion frame from sortie 4/0439 flown on the evening of the attack by F/L Speares of No. 4 Squadron RAF. While frame 4132, used further back in this thread to look at the accepted location at the gate lodge, was taken from the starboard side camera of Speires's PRXI Spitfire PA857, the port side companion camera captured frame 3138. While the NCAP sortie index is not that clear in defining frame boundaries, I am hoping frame 3138 has caught St. Foy de Montgomery and the rest of the road between that village and the boundary with frame 4132. No 4 Squadron's ORB (Record of Events) puts F/L Spears 'Up' at 18:05 and 'Down' at 19:45, out of RAF Odiham, so I am hoping he was not early in his run over the Area of Interest. Regards, Pat
Thanks Pat, as I've said, probably too many times on here, Rommel, the gift that keeps on giving. Now if we can get a definitive answer after all this time it clearly shows it was worth bringing this group back together. Cheers Allan
Hi Allan, I'm not sure a definitive answer is ever going to be possible, but I want to make sure all available 'air' is checked for signs of the car wreck. I read up a bit on No. 4 Squadron last night after downloading their ORBs from Kew for July 1944...sure would be nice to see a couple of Spits in flight on one of the eight frames captured by F/L Spears! Pat
Hi John, Still waiting. The image I'm after has to be scanned from scratch as the sortie is not yet digitised. I assume things are slow during December with the NCAP office closed for the Christmas period. Hopefully my order is near the top of the arrears list! During the summer I acquired a first edition copy of 'Rommel' by Desmond Young, published in 1950. Young was a Brigadier in North Africa, commanding 10th Indian Infantry Brigade. He was captured by Rommel's men during the Battle of Gazala in 1942 and was interviewed by Rommel himself. After the War, he came to know Rommel's widow Lucia and their son Manfred well and received unfettered access to the family's records. While the book sheds no new assistance on my efforts to locate the car on aerial cover, (the attack is described in pages 210-212 of my edition), there are snippets of what is known collectively as 'The Rommel Papers'. The examples in the back of the book seem to relate to North Africa, but I wouldn't mind seeing a full copy of this collection just in case. Regards, Pat
Hi All, Finally received the high resolution copy of NCAP_ACIU_4_0439_3138 flown on the evening of the attack, 17th July 1944. Initially I got very excited when this mark showed up...comparing favourable with the look of a know German staff car from the General Falley story: At first glance, I thought I had the car on its side in the ditch on the northern side of the road...even imagined seeing two bright dots for the front and rear wheels! Unfortunately, this area is overlapped on the already heavily scrutinised frame 4132 from the same sortie; port and starboard twin frames captured at the same time and there is no corresponding mark on frame 4132, so I assume the mark is from the film development process: Back to the drawing board! Regards, Pat
I have purchased another high resolution frame from Sortie 04/0439 flown on the evening of the attack. This one is to the north-west of frame 3138 which I looked at in the previous post and has the frame number 3098. No sign of the car here either I'm afraid! I'll have a look at the Sortie Index Plot to see what's available between those two frames when NCAP allows the creation of user accounts again following the re-vamp of their website. Regards, Pat
Greetings, I will follow with interest as you diligently investigate this Rommel conundrum. Happy sleuthing! Ellen
Hi All, When I first downloaded the low res copy of frame 3098 to check the boundaries, I noticed what looked like a field of unfinished hay cutting at the junction where I think the car came back onto the main road. I was reminded of one French eye witness mentioned by Michel le Querrec's on his page here. Apparently there was a father and son, Anatole and Camille Coisel cutting hay in a field by the road when the attacking aircraft flew by them close enough for the men to see the gun flashes in the wings. The full resolution copy confirmed my hunch that the field at the northern side of the T junction showed unfinished crop cutting... The green arrow is my guess at the exit junction where the car re-entered the main Livarot/Vimoutiers road just prior to the attack. The aircraft which flew sortie 439, which these frames belong to, seems to be following the road and banking at the main turns resulting a very congested Sortie Index Plot, so it's quite difficult to pick a frame which might close the gap between the two high res frames to hand as shown in my last post. I'm going to chance ordering a low res copy of frame 3097 which is my best guess to see if that the missing frame which would complete coverage of the road between the two towns. More follows... Regards, Pat