MSG John McCarthy’s Road to Lecaudey Farm (Part II)

Down the page is a modern photo of the location of one of Lage's images as presented on Bando's website:

http://triggertimeforum.yuku.com/reply/27037/Brevands-Bridges-someone-help#reply-27037

In another thread, Bando states he knows Lage's route from Holdy to Hiesville, but doesn't explain his method, so I don't know if his case is based on evidence or common sense.

If Mark has the negatives for the B&W Horsa photo, then there might be some clue as to the location based on identifying where in the sequence it appears. Probably out of luck in using this for the slides (no digital stamps on images then!).

Unless he was summoned for a meeting, I doubt Lage would have made more than one trip from Holdy to Hiesville as his surgical skills couldn't have any effect riding in a jeep.

No stark shadows for me to plot in the Lage photos, but afternoon is most likely as the trip was mostly south and west - and the sun seems to be at the photographer's back in the slides. Also, Lage took photos of the 82AB Horsa crash (LJ135) near Holdy on the morning of June 7 (not evening of June 6 as Mark thought in 2001), so his group didn't get an early start.

 

List,

I agree with Pat. The tree canopy over the road in the background of the Doc Lage photograph does not match the uncovered roadway seen in _4051 near the possible Chalk #8 landing site. However, Pat’s latest “Horsa in a laneway” photo does fit at least the general profile of what we would expect to see in any possible Chalk #8 photo. Specifically:
- There is no tree canopy over the road.
- Based on the orientation of the Horsa’s tail, the medics are standing on the Hiesville (north) side of the crash site, as you would most likely expect.
- Based on the glare in the background, the photo was taken looking towards the sun (maybe south?). Don, did I at least get that right? Regardless, I’ll leave the shadow analysis to you!

However, without any additional data, I don’t think a definitive conclusion is possible.

Below is the current Google Earth shot looking south on Route de Rabey towards the possible Chalk #8 site.

[IMG=850x561]http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q565/kgmccarthy1/Chalk8.jpg[/IMG]


R/Kevin

 

How about some speculation beyond my usual strict (ahem) standards?

Pat, there is one unusual feature of your new Horsa tail photo: note how the forward fuselage invasion stripe impinges on the white rear horizontal bar in the U.S. emblem? I don't recall ever seeing that bad an attempt at invasion stripe layout. While it is my general belief that the worst Horsa crashes were likely from the 82AB's last two Elmira serials because of landing in darkness, I looked at our Aldermaston runway photo. Only about the first half of the Horsas in this photo contain enough detail for this analysis, but humor me.

http://www.fold3.com/image/32040499/#32040499/

Note Horsa #11 - that is, the sixth Horsa in the left column. See the similarity in stripe layout? I realize the two views show opposite sides of the glider, but interesting nevertheless. Also note how both Horsas have the British ID number in a similar spot on the middle invasion stripe. The latter feature is not unique, but it is not extremely common either.

Even if correct, we know nothing about Keokuk #11 except that the pilot was WIA. The road shown in the crash photo either has to bend to miss the tree in the background or come to a 'T' intersection. Do we now need to catalog every stretch of trees with the French Poodle haircut?

 

Possibly more on Keokuk Chalk #8…

I have to give credit to Don for finding a Keokuk Mission Horsa crash site photograph in George Koskimaki’s D-Day with the Screaming Eagles that might contribute to the research effort in this thread. The photo, which I won’t post here lacking the publisher’s permission, can be found in the “center of the book” photograph section (no page number). The caption with the photograph reads:

"A Horsa glider carrying men and motorcycles of the 101st Signal Company on the evening flight crashed into trees in a hedgerow killing several troopers with others being badly injured."

I recall that Pat Elie’s research indicates that Chalks #8-12 were the primary gliders for 101st Signal Company personnel in Keokuk. If that is accurate, then there is probably at least a 20% chance that this photograph is of Chalk #8. Additional information outlined below might suggest that the likelihood is more than that.

From T/5 Charles Laden’s description of his arrival in Keokuk Chalk #8 (already discussed in this thread), we know that at least five Signal Company personnel were on board (three KIA, one WIA, and Laden) and the equipment included key radio equipment, two motorcycles and a trailer. With three troopers KIA, Chalk #8 accounts for 21% of the 14 KIA 101st casualties from Keokuk. From my father's account in D-Day with the Screaming Eagles, we know that several MPs and headquarters people (including his friend SGT Paris) were KIA on Chalk #3. Assuming that "several" means at least three, maybe four, that means two Chalks (#3 and #8) account for 43-50% of the 101st KIA casualties in Keokuk.

Several sources provide information on the glider pilots that were KIA and WIA on specific Keokuk gliders. Has anyone on the Forum been able to link 101st trooper KIA casualties to specific Keokuk gliders beyond what I have outlined above for Chalks # 3 and 8? Minus the six or seven KIA casualties in Chalks # 3 and 8, that leaves the remaining 30 Keokuk gliders, including four Signal Company gliders, to account for the other seven or eight KIAs. With that in mind, what is the likelihood that there was a second Signal Company glider with a significant number of KIA/WIA casualties as described in the photograph caption in Koskimaki’s book? If we can’t identify additional Signal Company gliders with a high KIA count, this might further support the likelihood that the photo in Koskimaki’s book is of Chalk #8.

I am attempting to contact George Koskimaki to ask him about the source of this photo and if there was a reason why he decided to add this particular photo to the book. George usually heads out of town for the summer months, so until that call is completed, that leaves only the photograph itself for consideration. The photo of the crash site is a close-up, so very little of the surrounding tree line can be seen. However, Pat has suggested that he might be able to find the site in aerial cover. Pat, any luck yet with that search?

Again, my thanks to Don for initially bringing the photo to my attention.

R/Kevin

 

Oh see if he has coverage of La Fiere bridge on D+1 too.

 

Now that would be something...

 

Good work, Detective Kevin. When no new sources appear, it's time to tease out some more info from what's already established. Here's a couple of tidbits:

1. F/O Ballintine said Chalk #10 carried an AT gun, so it looks there might have been some glider assignment switches done at the last minute. Koskimaki, p. 279, contains an account by Lt. James Moore which states the communications echelon was composed of 41 men, so five Horsas is still well within reason for Signal Co. and their gear.

2. RwD has a list of 101st dead near the back. The list is known to be less than perfect, but for the entire war, Signal Co. only lists 14 killed.

3. Chalk #13 MACR shows four glidermen killed (or DOI or MIA and found in the RwD list).

4. F/O Ballintine described the death of one of his passengers in the firefight - remember, the GI who got out of the ditch to go for help?

5. In Koskimaki, p. 277, is an account from Bill Finn describing the death of an HQ man.

So, if none are repeats, that's six more dead.

It's always difficult to reconcile casualty lists (I could send you a casualty list for the Florida Brigade at Gettysburg that took several years to research - and still has iffy entries). Koskimaki also shows 10 MIA, some of whom are likely to later appear as KIA/DOW.

The Finn account makes me uncomfortable. While he is Signal Co. and his crash sounds a lot like Laden's, based on Finn's description of POWs from his glider, I don't think it's the same as Laden's. That raises the question of which chalk number was Finn on and where is that glider on the aerials. With Finn's description of the shooting, my theory kinda needs it to be one of the Dippers - or at least nearby. Any suspects?

 

Disappointing news, Pat.

If you recall, this past December, our attempt to locate D+2 aerial coverage of our AoI was also unsuccessful. During a search of your sortie plots, I identified US 30_4108_2070 that provides coverage of the SW corner of Pratt Field and the western portions of the field south of Pratt Field (our AoI). These frames were shot on the evening of June 8th from an altitude of 7,500 ft on a SW to NE track. Unfortunately, NCAP does not hold this frame in their files. As you stated in your e-mail to me on December 10th:

“The guys in NCAP have emailed me today to say that all frames in the 2000 series from sortie 4108 (8th June) are not held by them and they have no knowledge of their whereabouts...this includes frame 2070.”

Could you ask Roy if, by chance, he has encountered frames from this sortie in any of his research efforts? If he hasn’t, any ideas from him or others on where else to look for these missing frames?

Regardless, I still plan to follow-up with George Koskimaki in the near future to discuss the background of the Horsa glider crash photograph in D-Day with the Screaming Eagles that is discussed earlier in this thread. Hopefully, that might result in some additional leads.

Lacking any other additional concrete evidence, at least for now, that leaves us with the Keokuk glider KIA summaries that Don and I have developed above. While realizing that these headcounts are subject to a significant amount of uncertainty, we have tentatively linked 12 or 13 of the 14 Keokuk KIAs to five specific gliders. Could this point to the possibility that that wrecked Horsa pictured in Koskimaki’s book is one of those five gliders? Maybe???

R/Kevin

 

Over the weekend I had the opportunity to speak again with George Koskimaki. Now 91 years old, Mr. Koskimaki is doing well. After discussing his upcoming trip to Holland and Bastogne, the focus of our conversation was Keokuk Chalk #8. A few key points of this conversation include:

Mr. Koskimaki was not aware of any other Keokuk Signal Company gliders with high KIA counts other than Chalk #8. This indicates that the discussion earlier in this thread that attempted to link the 101st trooper KIA counts with specific Keokuk gliders is probably fairly accurate. This also suggests that the Keokuk Signal Company glider with multiple KIAs pictured in Koskimaki’s D-Day with the Screaming Eagles is probably Chalk #8.

Mr. Koskimaki also confirmed that he is positive that the wrecked Keokuk glider pictured in his book is Chalk #8. He stated that Signal Company personnel or 326th Medical Company personnel were the most likely source of this photograph.

Mr. Koskimaki also mentioned T/5 Ted Lawler again. According to George, T/5 Lawler was one of the occupants of Chalk #8 that was wounded during the landing. After surviving the landing, Lawler was placed on a stretcher on the hood of a jeep for transportation back to the CP at Lecaudey Farm. On the trip back to the CP, the jeep was hit by German gunfire and Lawler suffered additional wounds from which he eventually recovered. On the ww2airborne.com website, T/5 Charles Laden, an uninjured passenger on Chalk #8, told a similar story: “We left (wounded) Staff Sergeant Harrison in the ditch to wait for the medics. I found out later that Harrison was picked up by the medics, but was wounded again when the jeep ambulance was hit by German machine gun fire. Fortunately he was rescued, survived his wounds, and also survived the war." Finally, in a summary my father sent to Koskimaki to assist with his book, my father stated: "One signal company glider piled into a tree in a hedgerow. Three men were killed and eight were injured. One of those injured in the crackup was the company's hard luck soldier, T/5 Ted Lawler.”

It is gratifying to see the pieces of the puzzle eventually come together!

Hopefully, our ongoing analysis of the wrecked Horsa pictured in Koskimaki’s book and the probable Chalk #8 crash site in aerial NCAP 1857_4052 will also be productive.

R/Kevin

 

Hi Kevin,

I don't have Koskimaki's Normandy book. Some friends here in Holland probably have, so I can check that out. But is that photo here on this thread?
I know of at least one 326th Medic who mentioned to have taken photos in Normandy. He became POW in Bastogne and apparently the photos were lost, then or later. His daughter wrote and told me that her fathers WW2 stuff are at Carlisle.
I believe to have an other address, but never got a reply from them. That would be a second 326th medic who had photos. I only know that he shared pics with a glider pilot. The Gp mentioned the photos.
I know someone who would visit the GP, but so far, that has not happened yet. I will follow up on that over two weeks or so.

Hans
www.airbornetroopcarrier.com

 

Hans,

The photo is not on this thread because I have not obtained permission from the publisher to post it.

When I spoke with Mr. Koskimaki, he stated that he thought the source of the photo might have been a dentist from the 326th Medical Company. However, he was not certain.

Unrelated to this discussion, but I provided a new Forum member, Randy Fuhrman, with a link to your website. His father, Harold, flew into Normandy on Keokuk Chalk #5. Randy asked me if anyone knows when the photo of the Keokuk gliders and tow planes at Aldermaston was taken. Just prior to departure when the crews were on board or sometime earlier in the afternoon? Do you know?

Kevin

 

Hello, everyone -
On page 134 of the book "World War II Glider Pilots" by Turner Publishing, 1991, are paragraphs on Sylvan T. Runkle [Chalk 8]. He says: "We went through a hedge and pilot and several others were killed. The medics pulled our wounded (including me) into a corner of the field to give first aid. My left arm and left leg were broken and wrapped with swatches of rolled up hay to act as splints. German patrol broke through the hedge and started shooting at us. My knee cap was shot off. One of the medics was shot through the buttock as he was lying flat on the ground. The other was apparently killed. The German patrol then came over and very excitedly checked and looked us over. They were so wild they were yelling at each other; I thought they would finish off all of us still alive but they left. Spent the rest of the night going in and out of consciousness, it rained on and off all night. Middle of the next morning, a jeep came and took us to the nearest battalion aid station in a French farmhouse."
I hope his comments are helpful to you. Regards, Alane

 

Alane, welcome to the Forum. The account above from F/O Sylvan Runkle regarding Chalk #8 further validates the information we have previously gathered from Laden and Koskimaki. If our theories about the landing sites for Chalks #4 and 8 are correct, the mention of German patrols by Runkle and my father is indicative of the level of German activity along Route de Rabey just 250 yards south of the Division CP. The barnyard where my father and his group possibly hid during the night of June 6th is only another 250 yards further south of the probable Chalk #8 landing site.


My thanks to Randy Fuhrman for recently providing me with a copy of a letter from his father’s WWII collection. As summarized in the several of the other threads on this Forum, Randy’s father, T/4 Harold Fuhrman, was also a member of the 101st Airborne Division Headquarters Company. He arrived in Normandy on the evening of June 6th 1944 as part of the Keokuk Mission (Chalk #5). Most likely landing in the Big Dipper area, T/4 Fuhrman was taken prisoner by the Germans and remained in captivity until the spring of 1945 when the Russians liberated his Stalag.

The two-page letter is written on Headquarters 101st Airborne Division Chief of Staff letterhead and is dated “Berchtesgden, Germany, 25 May 1945”. The letter, sent to Fuhrman’s by his friend Sgt Ed Ihlenfeld, essentially serves as a “catch up on your old unit” summary for the period of time Fuhrman was in captivity. It is also apparent that my father and Randy’s father knew each other during the pre-invasion time period as my father is mentioned twice in the letter.

The first three paragraphs of the letter (shown below) include information related to this thread and the Keokuk Mission landings.



Posted with permission of Randy Fuhrman


Several data points from the letter to discuss:

- Third Paragraph: “McCarthy came in the middle of the next morning (to the Division CP) and he made the third hand from Div Hq EM to come in on that wing and a prayer.” This validates my previous research that my father arrived at Lecaudey Farm some time on the morning of June 7th. Possibly coincidental, but the time frame of “mid-morning” also matches the medic’s mid-morning removal of F/O Runkle from the Chalk #8 landing field mentioned in the previous post. Koskimaki has told me that there was sniper activity in the Hiesville area until sometime on June 7th. Maybe it took until mid-morning to clear out this activity on Route de Rabey.
- Third Paragraph: Tom Doyle and Edward Ihlenfeld. Neither is listed in the Index of any of Koskimaki’s three books or his research papers in Carlisle. However, there is a Sgt Thomas J. Doyle, Division Hq & Hq Co, listed in the Honor Roll section of Rendezvous with Destiny.
- Third Paragraph: Interesting discussion about Doyle’s and Ihlenfeld’s quick departure from their landing field. According to Pat Elie’s summary, Division HQ personnel were mainly in Chalks #1-7. My father’s account in D-Day with the Screaming Eagles regarding Chalk #4 and the MACR for Chalk #5 eliminates them as candidates for Doyle’s and Ihlenfeld’s glider. That leaves Chalks #1,2,3,6, and 7 as the likely candidates. Previous research indicates that Chalk #3’s probable landing site is in the field south of the Pratt Memorial and that Chalk #7 probably landed more to the north in Pratt Field. That leaves Chalks #1,2 and 6 as the more likely candidates, especially considering Ihlenfeld’s comment, “We saw the predicament of the others and so like two big birds we went hell-bent down the road using every ditch.” Don, any comments on this discussion?

Again, my thanks to Randy Fuhrman for sharing his letter with us.

R/Kevin