Horsa Crash Site? (Knotts Photo)

Discussion in 'Troop Carrier & Glider' started by Pat Curran, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi List,

    I am wondering about the photograph below from page 3 of the Kenny I. Knotts Photograph Collection (Green Album):
    [​IMG]
    From the distinctive wheel and attached axel, I take the crash site to be that of a Horsa. There also seems to be buildings visible in the far distance at the end of the road.

    Anyone any ideas?

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  2. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
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    Been considering one of the roads NE of SME. Especially a location the D-15.
     
  3. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Could be Niels. The shed roof has no ridgeline and so should stand out in aerial cover.

    Pat
     
  4. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    Is the dark object (arrowed in yellow) on the far side of the tree a wing standing on its end?
    [​IMG]
    There seems to be skylight coming through the leaf canopy over it, so perhaps not :huh:

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  5. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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    Was thinking of this location, but it might be too far from the buildings. Other option might be just to the west on the next road.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Niels,

    I think its just about right for the distance into town. There is cover flown on the 6th June as per NCAP_ACIU_US30_4078_2013 but of course no Horsas have yet arrived:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    Your shed is within the red rectangle and zoomed to below:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    I wonder if the two trees casting shadows marked 'A' and 'B' above are the same as the two appearing in the Knotts photo below?
    [​IMG]
    Initially I thought the shed was slightly off line from the line of the road in the Knotts photo, but now I think it is indeed parallel as it clearly is in the aerial cover.

    I also had a look at the ever fruitful British Pathe re-supply mission footage and discovered to my dismay that just as the shed comes into view, the roll of film runs out :(
    [​IMG]
    Looks good overall Niels IMHO. Hopefully we can confirm it with some post 6th June cover.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  7. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Pat,

    Looking over the old NCAP proofs, the area in question above appears in 30/4108 8 JUNE 44 frames 1063, 1064, 1065. 1065 might be the best one to view andyou might get enough in the proof to confirm the location.

    John
     
  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks John,

    I'll put 1065 on my shopping list. I want to get a couple of more searches done first though:

    • Loving/Kiel Waco Crash Site (Pommeret Woods) - Lodged with NCAP tonight
    • The 'Gate Lodge' / Bridge Site for Rommel's Staff Car

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  9. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Almost a year late John ;)

    There is almost certainly a Horsa crash site at this shed visible on the low resolution extract of NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1065 flown on the 8th June:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk

    Well done Niels and John :D

    I have purchased low resolution copies of frames 1065 - 1068 inclusive and these are now available in the Green Room Library for members with 'Researcher' status at:

    Researchers 'Green Room' Area > Resource Files > NCAP Low Resolution 'Proof' Frames

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  10. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
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    Nice Pat! Plan to spend a lot more time on research in 2015. My 3D printing project is about finished and I'm expecting a massive load of new research material within a week or two. Good way to start 2015!
     
  11. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Glad to hear that Niels :D

    How is your armour book coming along?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  12. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
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    Pretty good, 2014 brought some unexpected answers to some old questions (and raised some new ones at the same time). But there are still some blanks to be filled. The new information will partially fill those blanks and much of the remaining blanks are probably a matter of ordering the right records. Even without the new sources I'm already close to 400 pages. Finishing the book will be my main goal for 2015 (which might include a trip to the US and definitely one to Normandy)
    I had hoped 2014 would result in many new books with new information/leads, which was one of the reasons I did not push on in 2013//2014. However, I found 2014 to be rather disappointing. (I may have missed some publications though, so I'd appreciate some suggestions).
    2015 should bring at least two books I've been assisting with that may well provide new information I'm not yet aware of.

    BTW Pat, could you add the first photo of this thread under the NCAP extract? It will immediately show a lot of similarities in the wreckage. I think the photo was taken just NE from the point where the path joins the main road. The northernmost piece of wreckage and the hedges around the path and main road seem to confirm this. The LOS of the camera over the shed to tree A and B also matches.

    The best evidence to link the two photos together are in my opinion still the shed and the large piece of the fusalage lying next to it. The path, other wreckage and trees further confirm it. Unless I'm overlooking something I'm putting this one at 99,9%.
     
  13. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Niels,

    Here is what I understand you to be asking for - copy it down yourself and mark it as you wish with your ties. I'll delete this post when you have it marked and put back up in your own post.
    [​IMG]

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  14. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
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    I meant in post #9 ;-) (In a completely unsuccessful attempt to keep all the posts to the point. LOL)
     
  15. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,575
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    OK Niels,

    If you mark the ties you see on the image above, I'll edit post #9 to replace the image that's currently there with yours. I'll then delete these later posts, making the thread free flowing again - the power of an administrator is unlimited ;)

    Regards,

    Pat
     

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