Hi All, searching in the vicinity of Caen in IGN I came along this high res pictures from 1946 of an amoured scrap yard. I searched the forum and did not find a match with 'Scrap' and 'Yard'. So here we go: Source: IGN Cover 1946 and GE. [align=center][/align] Here the search condition and location close to Caen. I stiched the 2 frames to the east together.
Hi Hans, Have you tried for wreck parks in the areas of high density shown on the two maps from 'Tactical Air Power in the Normandy Campaign: The Role of 83 Group' by Christopher Robert Evans? This is the recent document found by Allan and now in our Green Room Library: I'll bet there are several post war wreck parks in the area between Trun and Chambois Regards, Pat
Hello Pat When I was at Montormel in July the guide told us that the British bulldozed mass graves from the Falaise pocket battles, and simply pushed in the dead Germans, the only problem is that it affected the water table for years afterwards causing widespread health problems not envisaged at the time. They probably did the same thing for the dead horses. Then in the early fifties they were removed and reburied in a long term project involving the German equivalent to the CWGC, the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge. Compared to that cleaning up the battlefield of tanks and other vehicles must have been a relatively simple affair of taking them to these dumps. regards Allan
Hi Allan, It was probably all that could be done in the immediate aftermath of the battle of the Falaise Gap. I read somewhere that pilots flying over the area before these mass burials, could smell the decay below if they had their canopies open. In relation to the vehicles, there was a survey carried out to see which weapons were the most effect against the German columns. It was found that artillery accounted for most German losses and that the original numbers claimed by fighter bomber pilots was often over estimated. The Typhoon rocket attacks are now often said to have been inaccurate and their real value was in the randomness of where the rockets would impact. Some German tank crews just abandoned their vehicles in terror as soon as Typhoons arrived on the scene. Having seen the remarkable accuracy of the Typhoon pilot in the 'Typhoon Gun Camera Footage Found' thread, showing the attack on the railway line entering Troarn Railway Station, I wonder about this assertion. Surely if a skilled pilot could put several rockets between the tracks in a banking dive, it would also be possible to aim at and hit a tank? Regards, Pat
AFAIK accuracy test were carried out (in the UK before the invasion) and the results were poor. Everything within 10 yards of the target was considered a direct hit. Still only 4% of the rockets fired were direct hits. It should also be noted these test were carried out with good weather, no enemy interference, on a static target in an open space. You can imagine what that would mean under combat conditions..... Hitting some random spots on a railroad while flying directly over it is also quite a different matter than coming in from the side and hitting something as small as a tank, especially if there are trees or other obstacles lining that road. Flying down a road is predictable, easy to spot and more dangerous (longer exposure) to a pilot than coming in from the left or right. Strafing (by sheer number of rounds) has a much better chance of hitting a target than rocket attacks. For soft-targets MG and cannon fire will be more than enough. Heavy armor is a different matter though.
Hello Pat I agree - it was probably the best that could be done at the time, and I feel for the engineers who had to do the battlefield clearance. Can't say that I agree totally with the results of the surveys - perhaps they should have interviewed PoW's for their viewpoint on being on the end of a rocket-firing Typhoon attack!! Although a good document - especially the maps/charts - I cannot agree with some of his data on a brief check through, especially as it attributes 125 Airfield as having a squadron that did not exist (Appendix A page 138) 433 Squadron RAAF, it should have been 453 Squadron RAAF, as 433 (Porcupine) Squadron RCAF operated the Halifax III, and was not in 2TAF!! And his references to Airfield HQ 125 (for example) when it should have been 125 Airfield HQ, also 122 and 125 were grouped together in 15 Fighter Wing (until the Airfields changed to Wings, and Wings changed to Sectors!!), and not Fighter Wing 15 (for example). Similarly, 2TAF didn't officially come into existence until 15 November 1943, before that it was simply Tactical Air Force, from its formation on 1 June 1943, and I have documents that show that, listing formation of No. 83 (Composite) Group T.A.F., and Formation of No. 84 (Composite) Group T.A.F. When I find errors in an item I am familiar with it makes me wonder how many errors exist in the item in areas that I am not familiar with, and presumably the people who marked his thesis were not aware of these mistakes (and any others in the document). He gained his degree and is happy, and probably still not aware of the mistakes!! regards Allan
Hi Pat, All, wasn't aware until now. I checked some IGN covers and found scrap yards/collecting points as well as amoured vehicles still visible in the fields close to a small village called Tournai-sur-Dive, few kilometers west of Chambois. IGN covers this village in 1945 with in total 8 high res frames in which I can see many amoured vehicals, probably 40+. I captured 2 sceens as examples.
Good work Hans, Just to the west of those 1945 frames, I see what appear to be mass burial plots on 1947 cover along the sides of the D717 road leading to Villedieu-les-Bailleul. Regards, Pat
Hello Pat Not surprised you found something after what I wrote the other day of the aftermath of the Falaise Pocket battles. However, these could be for horses as much as humans, as plenty of them were wiped out by the Allies as well, as we are all so aware. The photos at Montormel show so much of this, a terrible by-product of the Pocket battle, and showing that the Wehrmacht was so dependent on horses. Regards Allan
Hi Allan, Yes, there are some desperate accounts of wounded horses running terrified through the chaos of the Falaise Pocket. I am sure some of the older troops on both sides must have been reminded of the carnage they witnessed thirty years previously in 1914. Regards, Pat