555th BS Marauder Over Unknown Target

Discussion in 'Bomber' started by Pat Curran, Mar 27, 2016.

  1. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
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    Jan,
    I've sent you an email. If it didn't get through, send me a PM with your address and I'll email a higher resolution map ASAP.
     
  2. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
    137
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    Female
    Austin, Texas
    Here is a map of the Northern front in France that includes highways, roads and bridges. It offers a relatively high resolution click and zoon feature. Have not been able to find one for Normandy.

    http://www.oshermaps.org/search/zoom.php?no=4826.0001#img0
    [hr]
    Here's another, does not include much of Normandy, but include railroad tracks (which are noted a little differently). Still, might be helpful.

    http://www.oshermaps.org/search/zoom.php?no=1413.0001#img0
    [hr]
    Here's a link that allows what appears to be a complimentary download from Yale's library system.

    http://brbl-dl.library.yale.edu/vufind/Record/4164098
     
  3. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Jan,

    The Michelin Battle of Normandy map is here. It shows a lot of interesting features, including the Pluto pipeline routes.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  4. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
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    Female
    Austin, Texas
    Thanks, Pat,

    So much for my planned fall closet cleaning project. These maps are full of good information. The invasion plans were certainly optimistic, dropping troops so far inland.

    Thank you,

    Jan
     
  5. GJO194

    GJO194 Guest
    Guest

    Greetings. My Uncle was a regular crew member on "Mr. Five by Five" 386th/555th, 131612 YA-Z. I refer you to the b.26.com site which is an excellent resource. Additional info for the regular crew can be found here. Generally, my Uncle's crew was piloted by Capt. Sands who, as Chester Klier's formation diagram indicates, was replaced on 6-7-44 by Capt. Wentz and his crew. I can confirm that the Sand's crew was not flying that day as I have my Uncle's action log and following a sortie on 6/6 against positions on Utah Beach, his next mission was not until 6/10.
    So given the excellent work with the location photos, information made available by Pat Curran would support the time/place for the photo of "Mr. Five by Five" as suggested - 6/7 mission to Montsecret rail road siding. The only difficulty I have with the original photo is that I have seen a picture of the nose art for 131743 YA-B "Butch" and even though the picture quality is extremely suspect, it does not match what I can barely make out in the original photo of the bomb run. I will keep investigating. Also, as someone noted it appears that Mr. Klier did make a small error by misidentifying the aircraft numbers for "Sexy Betsy". If you look previous or subsequent formation diagrams he made, "Sexy Betsy" is correctly identified - YA-V. Thanks.
     
  6. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
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    Female
    Austin, Texas
    [hr]
    I'm not familiar with the 386th operating procedures. It is likely they conformed to those of the 323rd. Based on my expErience, the best way to determine who was on a particular aircraft is to check the loading list, formation assignments and the report filled out by the box lead. Last minute changes resulted in discrepancies at times.

    It would have been relatively unusual for an aircraft to have been flown by one crew, particularly during this particular time period. Even among crews, there were switch outs that happened regularly.

    So, without all of the relevant records, it's hard to be certain who is on that aircraft other than probably the pilot.
     
  7. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Greg,

    Welcome to the Forum and I am glad to see a family link to the 'Yellow Tails' here at last :D

    Can you post the photo of the nose art for 41-31743 YA-B ('Butch') please?

    Below is my best PS effort from the original print on Fold3:
    [​IMG]

    Does this now look any closer to your photo?

    We would be delighted to see any additional photos from your Uncle's collection.

    Thanks Greg,

    Pat
     
  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    A strange thing...

    On the page here, I get this entry for '41-31743':

    Two photos on Fold3 here and here appear to confirm linkage between the serial number and the 554th BS aircraft RU-S ('BARBARA/Dorothy').

    So is 'BUTCH' of the 555th the same aircraft as 'BARBARA/Dorothy' of the 554th? Surely not?

    Anyone able to shed light?

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  9. GJO194

    GJO194 Guest
    Guest

    Pat - please see attached. "Butch" is right hand side of photo, second plane down from the top. The image was posted in the B26.com Guestbook (entry date 9/22/09). Not the best image but have a look and tell me what you think. From the nose art I have seen, it would seem unlikely but not impossible to invert the image from side of the nose to the other. Then I suppose there is always the possibility that the made changes to the art over time. Thanks!
    [hr]
    One more item related to "Butch" - this would have been one of the last flights as it is recorded as crashing on take off on 6/10/44.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Greg,

    The artwork seems to be an image of a baby; perhaps 'Butch' was the pilot's son?
    [​IMG]
    In any event, given the distance and lack of definition in the aerial photo over Montsecret, I think its an acceptable possibility.

    What do the rest of you think?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  11. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
    137
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    Female
    Austin, Texas
    I'm not sure whether this is relevant in identifying the crew, but it's interesting that the formation assignments are on what appears to be a form with handwritten notations that customize it for each mission. The 323rd formation assignments changed a great deal from mission to mission, and it wouldn't have been practicable to use a form to reflect the assignments.

    Aircrew substitutions were not uncommon as airmen got sick or arrived back at base lat due to mechanical troubles, etc. To be certain, the loading list and the report filled out box the box lead would be helpful.
     
  12. Tmac1397

    Tmac1397 Guest
    Guest

    Hello All,
    I am new to the forum. I found this wonderful thread by searching for information about this specific mission because my uncle was the tail gunner of a B26 leading the second box just ahead of the two planes shown in the photo. The plane was piloted by Lt. Col Don Weiss, and my uncle was S/Sgt. Thomas McCaslin.
    A little background...
    My uncle's plane (42-96087, YA-O) was shot down over German held territory during a bombing mission on 06/22/1944 near Gavrus, France. All 8 men were initially listed as missing in action, but later declared KIA. The body of one officer was found by British soldiers in August 1944, but no others were found. In 1986, the bodies of the 4 flight officers were found buried together in a common grave, but three other men from the rear of the plane remained missing. In 2014 and 2017, the DPAA recovered the body of the top turret gunner from a wooded area about 150 yards from the 1986 discovery. Two men, my uncle and the radio operator/gunner have not yet been found.
    Since the 2014 discovery, I have been researching my uncle's history and the mission itself to aid in hopefully finding his remains. We have made many amazing discoveries, including actual photos from the fateful mission showing his plane going down in flames and impacting the ground. I recently obtained a copy of Lt. Col. Weiss' handwritten mission diary from one of his relatives. Weiss mentions the 06/07/1944 mission as follows:

    "Wed 6/7/1944-#46-615-Me, Pete, Dave, Drifty, Canty, McDaniel, McCaslin-Passed over the beachhead and saw a lot of naval activity but little land force movement. Went in just by Wash Southeast of Cherbourg peninsula at unprecedented altitude of 2,500-Made three passes at target before blowing up a small railroad station-no flak. Will remember this flight."

    Here is a photo of the entry:


    This was his 46th mission and he states he was flying 41-31615, which was a plane called "Hells Angels".

    Following the thread I also saw that there was discussion about the identity of the plane behind 'Mr. Five by Five." I believe this is plane called "Sparta", YA-D, 41-31794. Here is a photo of the plane after it crash landed in July 1944 on a German held beach:

    I think this nose art looks very close to the one pictured in the photos.

    I also believe there is another photo of these two planes from earlier in the same mission crossing the channel with naval activity below them.

    I am always looking for new clues about my uncle's fate and look forward to sharing his story with forum members to see if anyone has new leads to follow. I am especially interested in any German or British records that might mention what became of him as some U.S. records mention seeing parachutes from the plane. NOTE: The photos I have a very high resolution and show NO parachutes even though one alleged landing area can clearly be seen in the pictures. Thank you for all the wonderful work on this. I was great to see photos from one of my uncle's actual missions.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
    137
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    Female
    Austin, Texas
    It’s nice to see a fellow Marauder descendent participating in the forum. My father was a bombardier with the 323rd BG, 456th BS.

    I’ve skimmed your post and will read it carefully when I can. A few initial thoughts-

    First, I’m very sorry about your uncle. S

    As you know, he was shot down near a commune SE of Caen. Other forum members can tell you what was going on in that area on June 22.

    It sounds like they took fa direct hit to one of the fuel tanks or the bomb bay. Fire was the worst case scenario, and some of the crew members would’ve been trapped with no way out. There is a good chance that the entire crew went down with the plane. However, it sounds like their aircraft may have broken apart in the air.

    If you haven’t gotten the MACR, you’ll want to find it. The MACR’s were not always accurate. Sometimes, family members asked for formal investigations. Those seem to have yielded much more accurate and detailed accounts of the fates of the crew members.

    The 323rd lost one of its 3 box leads on its afternoon mission on D-Day. The MACR said one thing - the investigation said another. See info on the Maj. Paul Stach crew on this forum.

    There were 3 or 4 officers on your uncle’s crew - P, N, B and Gee N, if they had someone navigating by radar. There would’ve also been a crew chief/turret gunner, radio/waist gunner, and tail gunner. Possibly someone from the 4th Camera Unit in the waist, but not likely.

    I’ve been in the tail gunner position on a B-26. It’s cramped and all the way in the rear. Your uncle would’ve had a hard time getting out. There was a fire somewhere. That’s a big clue.

    When the aircraft impacted the ground, the airmen were crushed and compacted. The remains of the officers are usually found together. I suspect that’s the “common grave” you mentioned.

    I know two Belgian and one Dutch digger who’ve recovered the remains of B-26 crews. They’re with the MIA Project, and they do amazing work. If you’m provide the MACR, loading list, target info, etc., I’ll be happy to reach out to them.

    The B-26 combat crews in England had lots of sayings. One of them was that if you hear flak don’t worry about it - you’ll never hear the one that gets you.

    That said, fire was what my father dreaded. As a bombardier, he had no way out.

    Keep looking for answers. You’ll get there, and Pat, Hans, Nigel and the others here will be a big help. I’ll do what I can.

    Thank you for caring about your uncle’s fate. It means a lot to every combat air crew member. We need to find you uncle’s remains and bring him hime.

    Finally, he was on of the Marauder men, an incredibly inventive and against all odds tribe of slightly nuts because they had to be young men. Maybe he survived. There are incredible stories of survival.

    Jan
     
  14. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
    137
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    Female
    Austin, Texas
    I reached out to my friend. He said Jean-Luc and Jean-Pierre will be happy to help locate your uncle’s remains if they can. They live near Liege, Belgium, and there’s a rail line from there to Caen. If anyone can help you find your uncle, its them.

    Please send me an e-mail with a Word attachment outlining everything you know. I’ll forward it on, copying you so you’re in the loop.

    There’s a good chance that your uncle’s remains are within 200 yards or so of those of the turret gunner’s.

    Jan
     
  15. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hi Tmac,
    Welcome to the forum!

    Please let us know if you have the Missing Air Crew Report already...
    I have found it on Fold3.com listed as MACR 6283 and it is 9 pages long and has 3 witness accounts of your Uncle's B-26 receiving a direct hit from flak in the bomb bay area and that the aircraft immediately became engulfed in flames and spun off to the right and headed down...

    John
     
  16. Tmac1397

    Tmac1397 Guest
    Guest

    Hi John... thanks. Happy to be here. Yes I do have the MACR. I have extensively researched this crash but have hit a bit of a snag. I think I will start a new post about my investigation as not to hijack this thread. I should have it done in the next few days if not sooner. Thanks so much for your offer of help.
    -Tom McCaslin
     
  17. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
    137
    2
    Female
    Austin, Texas

    Oh, my. This isn't easy to hear even 75 years later. The crew didn’t know what hit them. A direct hit to the bomb bay didn’t happen very often, but every bomb group experienced it.

    The airmen believed the flak guns were all operated by German master sergeants because they were so good. On D-Day and in the days following, the B-26 crews started bombing at low altitude, reducing the time it took for the shells to reach altitude, making evasive actions harder and less effective.

    Here’s what probably happened-

    The tail section likely broke off, which explains why his uncle’s remains were not with the others. The tail gunner was back by himself in the tail, the radio and turret gunners were behind the cockpit and the nose. The bomb bay was between the radio and navigator seats, which were just behind and down a few steps from the cockpit. The tail gunner was behind the bomb bay.

    From a physics standpoint, if there was a blast, the tail section was much lighter than the front of the aircraft. So, it could’ve been blown back from the rest of the aircraft.

    I don’t subscribe to Fold3.com. If someone will send me the MACR, I’ll look it over.

    Jan
     
  18. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
    137
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    Female
    Austin, Texas
    Tom,

    We owe it to your uncle and your family to find him and bring him home, if we can. I’ll get word to the Belgian and Dutch team as soon as you open the new thread.

    Jan
     
  19. Jan Foster

    Jan Foster Active Member
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    Jan 12, 2016
    137
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    Female
    Austin, Texas
    Clarification, the bomb bay was through an opening behind the radio gunner and navigator tables. There was a cat walk through the bomb bay, and the tail gunner was behind the bomb bay in the tail.
     
  20. Tmac1397

    Tmac1397 Guest
    Guest

    I have posted a new thread about my uncle's crash. Thank you all.
     

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