Sean and Dale, Thanks for the additional clarification. I was reading "Ian Fleming’s Commandos - The Story of 30 Assault Unit in WWII" by Nicholas Rankin the other day on a different bit of research and came across this passage on pages 243-245: Having seen the reference to Ernie Pyle, I had a look in his excellent book "Brave Men" to see if he had made any reference to this incident; sure enough he had; page 403 refers: I then had a look at my copy of Tyler Alberts DVD '9th Infantry Division - Invasion of Normandy Series' to see if there was any sign of the hospital. Due to the extensive damage to buildings, I cannot be sure, but guess who I found lurking in the shadows: The term 'shaken, not stirred' springs to mind Click here for more on 30AU. Note the pale blue '30' shoulder patch shown in the article which is visible on both Commandos in the footage. When I tried doing a Google search for "Cherbourg Military Hospital" I came up with nothing more that the passage from the Rankin book. I then tried searching for the same phrase in French and came up with this page, which in turn led me to this building on GE: Can anyone confirm that this is where the wounded 82nd prisoners were kept in Cherbourg? Turning south again back to the Saint Lo area, I finally recalled where I had seen the reference to a stable complex being used to hold Allied POWs - not a stable actually but a stud farm. Below are two pictures taken at the complex from page 93 of "Utah Beach - Sainte Mere Eglise - Sainte Marie du Mont" by Georges Bernage and Dominique Francois: The caption reads: There is an equine centre in the town of Saint Lo - see the GE screenshot below: The buildings in the main 'square' seem to be some form of an equine educational college but note the detached building on the western side of the property; are those objects in the roof the dormer windows we see in photograph #8 above? The site would also explain the anxious skyward gaze of the prisoners, knowing the level of damage the town suffered as a result of Allied bombing. Comments and corrections welcomed and appreciated. Regards, Pat
The complex in Cherbourg is more commonly known as the Naval hospital and without doubt the hospital referred to by Pyle. Everything fits: units, records, photos, stories, etc. It's uncommon to get thát much information. Fun part is that despite all the records, mention of the 30AU is extremely limited. I'm guessing the journalists (there were more than just Pyle and Capa) knew this was classified information. Fortunately some cameramen still shot footage and usually the censors have much more trouble deleting unwanted clips... which in turn is probably the reason these rolls weren't used. Easier to declare an entire roll unsuitable for public use. BTW the 30AU guys probably had very limited interest in the hospital. They went into action to the southeast of the hospital, searching Von Schlieben's HQ (tunnel complex under Villa Maurice, the official Naval HQ IIRC). This had already been the prime target for their Cotentin mission when the invasion plans were being made. South of Cherbourg there was another hospital BTW, should have the coordinates somewhere. Not sure about the building you are looking at, number of dormer windows
Hello there, It is indeed the Haras in St Lô. I seem to recall reading at least one caption somewhere to the above photos which stated this part of the complex was destroyed. It may have been in an After the Battle publication, as the point they were making was that a comparison was impossible. Cheers, Sean
Niels and Sean, Thanks guys for the updates. I am sure you are correct Niels in that the 30AU Commandos had little interest in the hospital; I mentioned them solely because of the reference in Rankins book to that location and then when I found them in Tylers 9th ID DVD, I put up the screenshot. I have some more screenshots related to 30AU from the same DVD which I will post on a new dedicated thread. Speaking of Villa Maurice, I was looking for it today and assumed it was one and the same as Chateau Tournaville to the SE of the city, but from what you say regarding a linking tunnel, I think I have the wrong location. Can you post a GE screenshot please Niels? I ask because there is footage of the same officer seen holding the R/T handset leading a group about to enter a large house or chateau, which I am assuming would be the German Naval HQ. Sean, the building I am looking at in Sainte Lo seems to be the present day stables of the Haras. If they were rebuilt, they may be modelled on the as yet un-destroyed building we see in photo #8. Thanks guys, Pat
I have just looked at another 508th PIR E&E and he reports being at a monastery called Notre Dame de Lourdes with other POWs for two weeks. Can anyone pinpoint that location? He kind of indicates it is around St Lo. Edit. Okay I found another reference and it is located south east of St Lo near La Chapelle du Fest but I don't see anything monastrey like in the area. [hr] There is another report of a strafing on 10 June near Besneville with many wounded POWs according to E&Es. 23 Killed and 25 wounded.
Okay a bit of a tangent here with a back story. My Dad was wounded and captured after the drop of the 508th on D-Day. He was transported around a number of places and was bombed or strafed three times. In his stories of those times he said he was one of the first US troops in Paris, a story I found unlikely. But how do you account for that memory. Well in digging around I found a couple of things which might account for the idea that he was in Paris. First of all he was most likely in a fever and had lost a lot of blood so that puts his state of mind as "fuzzy" at best. Second is that when you think of Paris you think of Notre Dame Cathedral and the Eiffel Tower. In Coutances I found both those conditions. An Eiffel Tower Replica about 6 meters tall and the Cathedral is called the Cathedral de Notre Dame de Coutances. And there is in an August 1944 photo the Eiffel Tower replica in the street. I cannot seem to find any contemporary reference to the Tower replica and it doesn't seem to show up in pre-war postcards nor is there any open space to hold one. So does anyone have an aerial of Coutances prior to the invasion that could be searched for the tower replica? Second, is there a possibility that this is a radio tower that was on top of a near by building?
It was placed on the roof of the house of M. Lemoine, a radio salesman (from First US Army, Heimdal). I don't know when it came down, but I guess dates of the bombing raid(s) on Coutances could hold a clue. I do wonder how visible it would have been when it was still on top of a building as I doubt this road was used in this condition.
Hi Guys, Do you think perhaps the top of the tower is visible on the skyline above the 'au ...c picard' sign on the left of the postcard? I do not have access to my own PC at the moment but last night I was looking at the village of La Chapelle du Fest on GE and I note with interest a large building at the 2 'clock position beside the church. It seems to be divided today into two or three properties but the building seems to have one large walled garden on the south east side. I also note a railed in crucifix standing at a cross roads to the north east of the village. Dale, both sites may have no relevance to your quest but you never know Regards, Pat
Another bit of intel; From this page on WikiManche, I get this... ...translated by Google Translator to this: Regards, Pat
Thanks guys. I agree Notre Dame is a common church name in Normandy and have found several on POW transit routes. This photo of Coutances just triggered my thinking about my Dad's story of movement to Rennes. I suspect his route was through the 91st Luftlande Divisional Hospital/Aid Station on foot to Cherbourg Naval Hospital by rail to Briquebec then wood burning ambulance almost to Hayes du Puits (his third strafing attack by Allied aircraft) then through Coutances on his way to Rennes EPS POW Hospital. I suspect that my Dad went through Coutances on or about 12 June and I think the town was mostly intact at that point so the route would have been open passing by both landmarks.
Hello all, Coutances bombing from here: 6th June afternoon 6th June evening 6/7th June night 10th June morning 13/14th June night Cheers, Sean
Hi All, While searching for Saint Lo cover pertaining to another quest, I found a frame from sortie US7/1733 here on the NCAP site. Sortie US7/1733 was flown on the 6th June and this particular frame, 0014 starboard camera, shows an easterly view over the city of Saint Lo. One of the buildings, arrowed yellow in the extract below, has caught my eye: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.ukComing back towards the camera, you have the Haras, then the cemetery and then what appears to be a stables or barracks building to the NE of the church, Note how there is one large dormer style feature in the centre of the roof on the eastern side of this complex. In addition, though the zoom level is too small to be sure, I think there is a row of much smaller dormer windows in this roof. In my view, there is a striking similarity with the roof we see in this photo from page 93 of "Utah Beach - Sainte Mere Eglise - Sainte Marie du Mont" by Georges Bernage and Dominique Francois: The building in question I first thought destroyed by subsequent Allied bombardment as the site today shows a school with post war architecture evident and no sign of the long building with its back to the cemetery. Checking the IGN site for 1947 cover, I was surprised to see it still standing and counting the dormer windows on the northern half, I think we have a total of eight, providing a very good tie with the ground photo: The probability is that it was also a school in 1944. The mention of a school being used to hold Allied PoWs in Saint Lo rang a bell with me and I eventually found the reference in Philippe Esvelin's 'Forgotten Wings' on page 53: Unless anyone can find a flaw, I think we have the location nailed and the PoWs appear to be watching aircraft in flight to the SW of the city. Regards, Pat
Nice one Pat. You'll have no argument from me. The tall trees I the background (north) of the building also fit. One clarification, the church in the oblique photo is the Eglise Sainte Croix. It's where Major Tom Howie's body was laid after being brought into the town. Cheers, Sean
Hi Sean, Thanks for the clarification. Do you know if there any church in Saint Lo named Chapelle du Bon Sauveur? I have a feeling that the term 'Bon Sauveur' refers to mental hospitals run by a religious orders or communities. Regards, Pat
Hello Pat, No church or chapel that I know of but there is a school of the same name (in a completely different location). A large, religiously run school would have it's own chapel, yes? Maybe the terminology was lost in translation slightly? Cheers, Sean
Hi Sean, Yes, that's what I am getting at; this 'Chapelle' may well be part of a closed complex (closed that is to everyone except the Germans!) Regards, Pat
FWIW, I've been going through some 7.Armee records. 8 June: "Armeegefangenensammelstelle St.Lô nach Tessy sur Vire verlegt." which roughly translates as 'The 7.Armee POW-collection point at St.Lô has been moved to Tessy sur Vire' 23 June: statement that the number of wounded POW at the POW-camp at Rennes is too high for their own hospital. Support to be provided by the (German) military hospital of Rennes. 27 June: Here's a list of POW related locations - Bagnoles (E Domfront) - Alencon - Damigny (NW Alencon) - Fresnay le Buffard (S Falaise) - Tessy[-sur-Vire] (moved to Lingeard) - Lingeard (SW of Vire)
Thanks for that update. I wonder if the comment about the Rennes PW camp is saying that at the Lazarette 133/Front Stalag 221 W location at the old French caserne was holding wounded rather than sending to the Rennes Military Hospital and that they were finally directed to send them to the hospital. I do notice a significant bump in the hospital incoming on 23 June.
This makes perfect sense. The monastery was a Hauptverbandplatz of 243.Inf.Div. San.Kp.243 was stationed there. To continue, San.Kp.191 had an 'Ortslazarett' in Amfreville. Feldlazarett 709 acted as the Ortslazarett at 'La Bassecour' (close to Valognes IIRC, can't find the exact location now) [hr] That's exactly what seems to have happened. The original text, which in typical German fashion is more complicated that it should be Second sentence is key here. As a whole it translates roughly as: "At the current arrival rate of wounded PW at Stalag Rennes, the hospital of the camp is no longer sufficient. On request of Qu.2, the Armeeartz 7 (= chief medical officer of 7.Armee) has arranged that the 'medical care' (of the Stalag) is taken over by the Kriegslazarett. No matter what happens, the Kriegslazarett will be responsible for sending further medical personnel there (= Stalag).