Hello, and thanks to everyone for guiding me through this! I spoke with my uncle for nearly 2 hours on Sunday (and recorded it). I had many questions and told him I'd likely return with more in the days to come. He told me if he thought of anything he forgot to mention, he'd write it down and tell me on my return visit. Something I'm not clear about is: He said on D-day+1, there was alot of confusion and his Company (I'm not sure if Company I was all together at that point, because I read that some were separated for 2 days) learned they'd landed in the wrong place and marched back out to the beach to go to the correct location. He said he didn't recognize the beach from the day before, because of the harbor that had been put in place. My uncle is 90 years old, and as we all know, this happened almost 70 years ago. I know he may not recall things in detail, but does this make sense to anyone? I'll give more details about our conversation in a few days. I'm still reviewing the recording and taking notes . Thanks again! Patricia
Hi Patricia, I am certainly not well versed on the activities of ground forces. However, while looking at Wikipedia for a general understanding of what was going on with your uncle's division and regiment, I did run across a notation that due to heavy seas and general chaos much of the landing force was thrown off course, and most of the 116th missed its landing spots. The citation for this is, I believe, one of the books you mentioned in your reply of 4/5/14: D-Day: The Greatest Invasion - A Peoples History by Dan van der Vat; Pg. 95. I don't have the book and don't know if it says anything about going back to the beach on D+1, but it is consistent with your uncle's statement that he was told that they had not landed at the intended area. Glad that you are sharing stories on your uncle's participation in a most important historical event. And it is wonderful that you still have him to continue giving first hand accounts of what he saw and did. What a treasure! Charles
Thanks, Charles! I appreciate the interest, encouragement, and help from everyone! I'll probably show the forum to my uncle when I see him tomorrow.
Hi Patricia, I think I have an answer for you regarding your question yesterday about D+1. D-Day As you know, your uncle, Pvt Loyd Barron, was to land at Dog Red beach at about the west side of Les Moulins and the D3 draw. Heavy seas and tide pushed the I company landing crafts to an area east of Les Moulins by about 600-900 yards. I company fought their way inland to St Laurent and throughout the day could not move the germans who held the high ground on the western end of St Laurent. This western area area also controlled the upper surrounding area of the D3 draw. Fighting at the crossroads and against the germans on the western side of St Laurent lasted through the night and into the morning of the next day. The road between St Laurent and Vierville was still under enemy fire the next morning (D+1). Plans for D+1 had to be adjusted for several reasons... The high number of casualties of other companies of the 116th regiment. Other units were still very scattered. The germans were still strong at St Laurent. The enemy was still close to Vierville on the south (mainly A,B,C,D companies of the 116th). The 2nd Rangers at Pointe du Hoc were isolated. This changed the duty of the 3rd Battalion of the 116th on D+1, to move to and clear the bluffs west of Les Moulins towards Vierville. The safest way to do this was to go back to the beach without moving west against the german held area west of St Laurent. The 3rd Battalion found some german resistance still along the bluffs and captured some machine gun positions and took some prisoners in the bluffs west of the D3 draw. This activity took most of D+1 to accomplish. The 3rd Battalion then moved south towards Louvieres until they made contact with the germans and then were pulled back for a perimeter defense at Vierville. On June 8th, (D+2) at 10:00am, an attack using the 116th was started towards Pointe du Hoc. German resistance faded quickly and Pointe du Hoc was cleared by noon. Movement continued toward Grandcamp and the town was entered by other companies, and I company came into the town with one platoon of I company going all the way through the western end and forced the surrender of a pillbox at the edge of the beach. Some of the action was described by 3rd battalion 116th, as more severe than their D-Day fighting. My source for this information is the book "Omaha Beachhead" by the historical division of the War Department. Here is a link to a downloadable version. http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/100/100-11/index.html I would refer readers to pages 97, 109, 122, 128-129, and 130 regarding the above conclusions. This book is a great source for all actions in the omaha area. John
John- Thanks so much for clarifying this! I think I've read so much that I've gotten confused! I was able to find a copy of 'Omaha Beachhead' American Forces In Action Series-Historical Division-War Department from The James Earl Carter Library at Ga. Southwestern College in Americus, Georgia. I will pay close attention to the specific pages you cited. Again, thank you!
Hi All, Does anyone know where I might get a full length copy of the Critical Past footage here shot in Isigny? It's the 'INV 90' reel. IIRC, there are 29th ID shoulder patches visible somewhere in the full length version. Thanks, Pat
Hi All, Most of the footage in this BP clip is from the Cotentin/Cherbourg area but there is a three sided road sign visible at 01:36 which I think might be related to the following scene showing the 29th ID corporal talking to two French civilians. The road sign might therefore be in the Omaha Sector. Can anyone make out the writing? Don't have access to YouTube at work just now so I cannot check for better definition as per Niels's update today. The BP Film ID is: 1899.16 Thanks, Pat
Thanks Sean, I have been trying to find an index of the Michelin Gc road numbers but have so far failed. I sent an email to the owner of this historical Michelin site in the hope that we can locate the road junction. Am I correct in thinking that the red numbers on the old Michelin maps are these 'Gc' numbers and not distances between towns? Regards, Pat
Hello there, Knew I'd seen this before but couldn't remember exactly. The local fellow at 1:36 is Monsieur Leterrier, then the mayor of Vierville sur Mer. See here for some info (in French) from the Vierville site. I guess (I think we've discussed this before.... Pont l'Abbé?) some but not all of the GC numbers correspond with the current "départmentale" numbers, as the D30 runs south from Vierville towards Formigny. Cheers, Sean Edit: Street View image isn't the best but you can see the annexe and garage, so M. Leterrier is in his front garden, according to the info on the little plan on the Vierville site. Here you go: It was for sale when the Street View picture was taken.....
Pat, I have been checking fold3.com much of the day today and came across an old map that shows the Gc 32 and Gc 30 coming to a "T" in Vierville. The modern designations for these roads today is the D514 (Gc 32) and the D 30 (Gc 30). I will send you the map in a PM, so you can then post it if you wish. I am not sure if the link will work but here it is: http://www.fold3.com/image/251/291541606/#251/290392009/ John
Sean and John, Thanks guys for tracking this location down. Below is a an extract from the Fold3 map to which John refers to above: You will need a Fold3 account to see the full (very useful) map. The GE 'street view' below of the T junction shows extensive post war reconstruction but I suspect the peculiar clipped corner with the white door is the same as that seen behind the middle GI in Sean's screenshot above: It is quite likely that Loyd would have passed this intersection as his battalion wheeled right in their drive on Grandcamp Maisy. The 116th IR appears to have split into two columns in this drive; one advancing along the coast via Pointe du Hoc and the southern column via Jucoville: Does anyone know which of these two columns I Company were with? Thanks, Pat Edit @ 12:14pm: The broken red line is the American position as of the 7th June; the solid red line that of the 8th June.
Pat, I company was the northern route of the two. On June 8th, an attack using the 116th was started towards Pointe du Hoc. German resistance faded quickly and Pointe du Hoc was cleared by noon. Movement continued toward Grandcamp and the town was entered by other companies first and I company came into the town, with one platoon of I company led by Lt. Norvin Nathan drove all the way through the western end and forced the surrender of a pillbox at the edge of the beach. Some of the action was described by the 3rd battalion 116th, as more severe than their D-Day fighting. There is a nice map on page 129 of "Omaha Beachhead". John
Thanks John, Does anyone have maps showing the 116th IR advance line towards St. Lo from from the 7th June to the 11th July? The map below marks their location for the push on St Lo but I have nothing on their locations prior to this attack: The only map I have found showing the whole route followed by the 116th IR is the sketch map on the back of this DVD cover on French researcher Michel Le Querrec's Flickr page here. The yellow line shows the route followed from Grandcamp Maisy to St. Lo but obviously it does not lend itself to detailed analysis. BTW, does anyone have a copy of the DVD, the subject of Michel's cover image? I am also looking for a good book on the 29th ID's Normandy campaign. Thanks, Pat
Hi, everyone! I've spent more time talking with my uncle (and recording). I'll be posting the information he gave me. I want to organize it a little more before I do, but I hope to be finished later tonight. I'm sorry for the delay, but I've been busier than usual since Easter!
Well, there are the usual maps from 'Omaha Beachhead (6 June-13 June 1944)' 9-11 June: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-A-Omaha/maps/USA-A-Omaha-XIV.jpg 116th IR in reserve 12-13 June: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-A-Omaha/maps/USA-A-Omaha-XV.jpg Pay attention to how close they already came to the area of your 7 July map. 'Cross-Channel Attack' has few maps of the V Corps sector, but has good textual information: http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/7-4/7-4_9.HTM#377 Especially pay attention to page 380-383. Pretty much explains why you won't find many maps between mid June until 7 July. After that the book on St-Lô obviously picks up the story: http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-13/st-lo_0.htm or the book following Cross-Channel Attack: Breakout and Pursuit. http://ftp.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-E-Breakout/index.html To Patricia, in case you hadn't noticed already these books fall in two categories: - 'Omaha Beachhead' and 'St-Lô' are part of the 'American Forces in Action Series' - 'Cross Channel Attack' and 'Breakout and Pursuit' are part of the 'United States Army in World War II - European Theater of Operations'. These were published some time after the first category and tend to have a much wider scope.
Hello everyone. All the information posted is a huge help in my current research as well. Thank you all. Patricia, I am currently talking to a 29th veteran who landed on D-Day with the 116th in I Co. I took a copy of your uncles picture and his name in hopes that he might have known him but unfortunately he did not. He was assigned to the 175th shortly after D-Day and stayed with them for the remainder of the war. Good luck with your research and look forward to more post on this thread.
Hi, everyone! I'm still talking with my uncle periodically and updating information as he recalls things. I'll provide updates as I get them. I've found another person that interviewed and recorded my uncle several years ago. I'm hoping we can swap our recordings so we can fill in the blanks. Sean: I told my uncle about Arlie Ray Horn. Unfortunately, he couldn't recall him. He said if I'd asked him a few years ago, he might remember. He said he thinks of people and things sometimes, but not when he needs to, like when I ask him. Ybarbo83: Thanks for sharing my uncles photo with the veteran you know. It would've been great if he'd recognized him. I appreciate your effort. Thanks! Patricia