Hi all, Pat, good to have the full sized, uncropped image. Where did it come from? Neil; yes, I think your theory is well supported. Chalk #1 a dot glider; how about that! Charles
If I follow the 'logic' of the serial numbers for the 80th TCS, there is a high possibility for tail 'K' to be 42-100542... But until more proof.. just a possibility
Hello All, This is very interesting information. It does make my head spin just a bit, bringing with it questions. Interesting that Lt. Col. William's c-47 was a 80th (7D) aircraft in this mission and the other C-47s were of the 82nd (3D). The Horsa to the left is marked with the 1"dot". What I also find interesting is the "Hoatson" glider marked with the 12"dot", also of the 82nd TCS. The information Patrick provided for chalk markings I believe correct but, in this case, could the 82nd TCS be the "lead" for the 436th with Lt. Col Williams leading off? ....Because of the chalk markings 1 - 12 for the 82nd...?If I recall, there were 12 Horsa gliders supplied by the 82nd TCS. In the histories, I tried to find the take off times for the glider missions. Unfortunately these old eyes have a hard time reading the reports. The one I did find was from the 80th TCS and the gliders took off at 20:51. I apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere and I did not catch it. Thank you Be Well Dave
Another bit... In Mark Bando's 'Vanguard of the Crusade', there is a photograph on page 24 of C-47 nose art for aircraft 'Ma Petite Jeanne' of the 80th TCS. Mark has the photograph credited to Sergeant Edward Benecke, A/377th PFAB. Apparently Sgt. Benecke had a camera at Membury: There sounds to be a number of photographs in this collection, perhaps with gliders in the background. It might be worth contacting Mark to see if this collection could be checked. Regards, Pat
There will be 436th TCG nose art in my new book, which is about Troop Carrier nose art. None of Benecke's pics. It is already at the publisher and expected this spring.
Hi Dave, Yes, we now apparently have a photo of Horsa #1 of the 12 gliders provided by the 82nd TCS, seemingly lined up for a take-off. Adriel N. Williams was the C/O for the 436th TCG and used the C-47 pictured in the image posted by Pat earlier for that flight. In the June history for the 82nd TCS, as mentioned, it was noted that Lt. Col. Adriel N. Williams led the 82nd TCS and the Group, taking off at 2037 hrs. The take off time of 2037 hrs. is the earliest I have been able to find for the squadrons of the 436th TCG, for Serial 32. In Esvelin's D-Day Gliders, the time for take off of the 436th is shown as a few minutes later at 2042. Assuming that the 436th TCG Serial 32 gliders had a dot below their chalk numbers, it looks like we now have 4 of the twelve Horsas for the 82nd TCS identified by chalk number: 1, 6, 8 and 12, each with a dot below the number. As far as I know, we have only been able to identify the pilots of Chalk #12 Hoatson/Boyer, even though we have the names of all of the pilot pairings, in that squadron, who flew with the 436th TCG that evening. Several other "dot" gliders have also been identified, but were likely part of the other three squadrons in the 436th for the Elmira mission, given their higher chalk numbers. All for now. Charles
Nice image, Neil. I knew Williams had named the C-47 after his wife, but forgot what it was. Thanks for the posting. Charles
Neil & Charles, Thank you for posting the image of "Daly Express". That is some art work! Charles, I appreciate the information you provided for take off times. If the 82nd took off at 2037 and the rest of the 436th at 2042. I read in the 80th history, they took off at 2051. I wonder now if I should be looking a bit further in the chalk numbers. At one time I was looking for #13 but I guess I should try and track down the other take off times of the 79th and 81st. I read through Martin Wolf's Green Light but, I missed any take off time. We jump from #12 to #14 (Spook). Do you recall if "Spook" has been located on the aerial imagery? Be Well Dave
Hi Dave, What I have for take off times for the 436th TCG in serial 32 of Elmira comes from the unit histories of those squadrons: 82nd TCS 2037 80th TCS 2051 81st TCS 2100 79th TCS No info. in the history report I have. Others may have additional info. Charles
Dave, Spook is located at La Londe near Beuzeville-au-Plain (Some 1.3 miles north west from St Mere Eglise and only some 400 meters approximately from the Hoatson Horsa). The fields at La Londe turned into the first USAAF airfield in France when engineers built a strip there. It was called Advanced Landing Ground (A-6).
The coming newsletter of the Glider Pilot Association haar an article about La Londe and 436th resupply missions. One of the GPs had said he landed on/near same spot as on D-day flight. That soundeffect as La Londe to me. Posted sketch in post few years back.
Hi all, A few days ago Dave emailed me a copy of a photograph that was part of his father-in-law's collection. Below is a reproduction of that image, followed by a zoomed in version: And the zoomed version: The image holds up very well when focusing in closely. I have no idea who the pilot of the fighter plane is. Nor am I certain as to just what aircraft he is in, but I bet a number of you would have a good idea. We can see another fighter on the starboard side of the pilot's plane and can make out some of the numbering on the tail. In the background are four C-47s with a 3D coding, indicating that they are 82nd TCS aircraft. I suppose the photo could have been taken at Membury. While the lettering on the tail of the left most one is not visible, the next three from left to right could be V, then W, then T. That's my guess. As for the nose art on the right most C-47, max zoom produced the following: I don't know what the artwork is; a face? Any comments/thoughts on the subject image would be welcome. Charles
Hi Charles, The fighters in the foreground appear to be P47s with the later bubble canopy. The 366th Fighter Group shared Membury with the 436th TCG, so we could be looking at two of their P-47s. The dark toned (I don't think its black) horizontal bar on the vertical stabilizer might help to tie down the squadron. The C-47s have well worn invasion strips, with the top surfaces removed, which would date the photo post June '44. Regards, Pat
Thanks for the observations Pat. I had not noticed the worn away nature of the invasions stripes. That would push the photo date a ways back past the early glider missions in Normandy. Charles