Elmira Horsa Glider

Discussion in 'Troop Carrier & Glider' started by ddayHorsa, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. RhysArmstrong

    Guest

    http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropus/data/9tcc_03.pdf


    Found this. If already here, sorry.
     
  2. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Jeffrey,

    Thanks for posting the link.

    That document is from member Patrick Elie's site 6juin1944.com which is one of the best dedicated D-Day sites on the web :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  3. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,556
    10
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Another look at the P-47s...

    I am now wondering if they might be from the 81st Fighter Squadron, 50th Fighter Group. The tail and upper nose markings are matches for these earlier 'razorbacks' variants in the foreground on La Londe A-6 ALG - (not their home ALG in Normandy):
    [​IMG]
    Cannot find any common 'home' airstrip for both Groups however.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  4. allan125

    allan125 Active Member
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    Apr 20, 2013
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    Retired - although it doesn't feel like it
    Cornwall/UK
    Hello Pat

    From the listing on the website of Dave Clark http://www3.sympatico.ca/angels_eight/9tac.html

    71st Fighter Wing
    366th Fighter Group (Lt Col Norm Holt)
    389th Squadron, P-47 (Thruxton, A.1 20Jun) A6
    390th Squadron, P-47 (Thruxton, A.1 20Jun) B2
    391st Squadron, P-47 (Thruxton, A.1 20Jun) A8

    84th Fighter Wing
    50th Fighter Group (Col William Greenfield)
    10th Squadron, P-47 (Lymington, A.10 25Jun) T5
    81st Squadron, P-47 (Lymington, A.10 25Jun) 2N
    313th Squadron, P-47 (Lymington, A.10 25Jun) W3

    A.10 Catz/Carentan - visited by Sean, myself and my daughter Rachel back in 2015 for the Tank Museum now on the site.

    Regards

    Allan
     
  5. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,556
    10
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Allan,

    Because the 50th Fighter Group was stationed at A-10 ALG when they first moved to France, the photo of the two 81st Squadron Thunderbolts and the cattle has been cited extensively as having been taken at that ALG.

    This is incorrect, as work we done a while back places the Spitfire V wreck marked '4G' firmly on the A-6 ALG at La Londe Farm. This aircraft belonged to the American naval VCS-7 Squadron, being part of the 'Air Spotting Pool' directing naval gunfire in the Channel.

    I'll update the 'ALG A6 - Beuzeville au Plain (La Londe)' thread to show how we came to this conclusion.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  6. allan125

    allan125 Active Member
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    Apr 20, 2013
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    Retired - although it doesn't feel like it
    Cornwall/UK
    Hi Pat

    Windy here last night, and still is, presume same with you?

    Thanks for update

    Regards

    Allan
     
  7. ddayHorsa

    ddayHorsa Active Member
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    Dec 20, 2013
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    #207 ddayHorsa, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    Hello all,


    While rummaging through E Bay this morning, I noticed the following photo involving a crashed Horsa:




    Horsa on road with medic at 850.png



    Although this looks familiar to me, I couldn't come up with a thread that contains the image. If we have already seen this before, please let me know. It kind of looks like it could be a screen-grab from a video.


    Thanks,

    Charles
     
  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,556
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Charles,

    Can you post the Ebay link please; PhotoBucket image is blocked in your post.

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  9. ddayHorsa

    ddayHorsa Active Member
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    Dec 20, 2013
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  10. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Charles,

    Seen it before but not at the size quoted. It could be any number of locations, but I do note the lane falling away on the far side of the tail section.

    I wonder could it be the lane running along the SW hedge of the Gayley crash field at Holdy? IIRC, there is unexplained smoke rising from that laneway in footage of this crash site and; if I also recall correctly, there is a missing tail section from a Horsa on the other side of that lane. There is no 'street view' of the lane, but the view from this corner seems to suggest its at least rising to higher ground from here.

    Just a hunch,

    Pat
     
  11. Jonesy

    Jonesy Active Member
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    Nov 23, 2014
    217
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    Wiltshire, UK
    I've had the same hunch about that photo for a while.

    The lane does look similar and I've wondered if the photographer was Capt George Lage. There are one or two similar photographs of his showing a wrecked Horsa blocking a lane in Bando's books.
     
  12. ddayHorsa

    ddayHorsa Active Member
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    Dec 20, 2013
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    Thanks for the help Pat, Neil. I'll continue pecking away at this with the info. you have provided.

    Charles
     
  13. Jonesy

    Jonesy Active Member
    Researcher

    Nov 23, 2014
    217
    1
    Wiltshire, UK
    I'm reviving the thread as back in August I went to visit 1st Lt Andrew Bates from the 79th Troop Carrier Squadron, 436th Troop Carrier Group. He flew a Horsa Glider carrying the 319th GFAB on D-Day. Remarkably, he kept the loading manifest which states he was Chalk #21. At 99 years old I didn't get that much info from him but his son confirmed that he landed fairly close to St Mere Eglise. I wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the La Londe area Horsas.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. patelie

    patelie Active Member
    Researcher

    There is a correction to make on the second sheet.
    While, Gay and his crew, flying in 42-100523, were in the 79th TCS, the second crew and their aircraft, 42-100547, were from the 81st TCS.
    Note also than, in the D-Day crew, the RO is Martin Wolfe, author of book "Green Light"
    Interesting loading manifest Neil. Thanks
     
  15. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,556
    10
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Guys,

    From this first hand account, Lt. Bates's Horsa appears to be resting on top of a hedgerow, badly damaged. Eight men, a jeep and trailer matches reasonably well with the 21st entry in the Serial 32 listing:

    Organization: 319th FA Bn
    Glider: Destroyed
    Personnel No.: 7
    Personnel Evacuated: 5
    Jeep: Unservicable
    Trailer: Unservicable
    Distance from LZ: 1000 yards

    No mention of one KIA though.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  16. Jonesy

    Jonesy Active Member
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    Nov 23, 2014
    217
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    Wiltshire, UK
    The young lieutenant from the 319th GFAB that broke his neck during the landing was 2nd Lt Norman Doerges from Colorado. He is buried at the American Cemetery in Normandy (Plot C Row 1 Grave 3).
     
  17. ddayHorsa

    ddayHorsa Active Member
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    Dec 20, 2013
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    Hi Neil,

    A while back I was on the 319th GFAB facebook site, and ran across a post that made reference to the photo of a line-up of 436th TCG / 82nd TCS aircraft at Membury. I have this photo. However, the post also mentioned a second photo, perhaps of these same aircraft at Membury. Below is a copy of the post:

    319th GFAB post on Facebook 10 1 2018.png

    Do you know who has the second photo, and how I might obtain a copy? I'd appreciate any help.

    Thanks,
    Charles
     
  18. ddayHorsa

    ddayHorsa Active Member
    Researcher

    Dec 20, 2013
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    Hi all,

    I am trying to get some help with translating Normandy coordinates, reported such as 36.5-97.7 (same as 365977) into latitude / longitude coordinates. Back a few years ago I was able to do such conversions on a website that focused on "French Lambert Zone 1", without any problems. Over time, I stopped doing these calculations and am apparently now starting from scratch. Does anyone have the website that I might have used, or any suggestions how I might find it or a similar one? All suggestions welcome!

    Charles
     
  19. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Male
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hi Charles,
    I usually go right to a copy of a GSGS map from that period as it seems to be much faster for me.
    The location for (365977) is in the field at La Londe just south of the lane in.
    you can see on the map here...
    2020-02-13_17-29-53.jpg
     
  20. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    363
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    #220 Jpz4, Feb 14, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    That's probably this one: http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-translator.php#
    Tends to be off by 25 meters to the west and 75 to the north in Normandy. You might want to check the deviation using the map John posted.
     

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