Pat, I believe it is the area behind the Spook pan. Some things for you to compare is look at the shape of the top half of the first 3 tall trees in the spook pan (call them left, middle, and right). Then compare them with the single frame photo and the top of the tall trees. Left and middle tree are now in line. Also compare the damage to the horsa just over the middle white stripe of the tail of the spook horsa with the damage seen in the single frame horsa. Also compare the horsa wreck wing angle beyond the machine gun in the spook pan with the wing angle of the wreck beyond the single frame horsa. In my opinion these all lead to the same location and the spook horsa would be just left of the single frame photo. John
Hi John, OK, I see it now; I think the AA position in the single still is visible behind the barrel of the gun in the 'Spook' sequence stitch. Do you concur? Regards, Pat
Hi Pat, Whatever we see in the single photo on the very left edge, we see to the right of the machine gun and just left of the Spook nose in the pan under some other glider's wing. I cant tell what it is though. The foxhole the GI's are sitting in might be seen directly under the wheels of the Spook horsa in the pan. I can't tell for sure, it could be wreckage like we see under the nose wheel of Spook. In my mind the GI's would more likely be behind the tail of the spook horsa in the pan, or even just to the right of where the pan ends. John
Pat, I don't know if this is the Critical Past video to which you were referring, but it does contain a Horsa glider wreckage at 43 sec into the film, and near the end of this 1:15 sec video there are a couple of explosions with trees coming down. Men are working on the runway. It appears to be #323 under "France" in 1944. Charles
8010 is pretty fuzzy, but it looks like my Horsas #30 and 34 are still in about the same spot on June 12 - maybe nudged just a bit. Also, am I hallucinating (again) - or does it appear that my #28 and #29 are in different spots on the Esvelin image? Maybe in one spot close to the 1002 position of #29? Assuming I'm right, why would they get moved considering the hedgerows in that area are intact - so not in the way of airfield construction? T/O&E for an Engineer Aviation Battalion shows 22 .50 cal. MGs, so more could pop up. On GE - the Artilly Farm at the intersection of D17 and D115 is shown as HQ of 795th Georgian Battalion (Ost). Is that correct? LTC Bertsch (319 GFAB) mentions he later learned the farm was an enemy strongpoint - and then speculated that the Germans didn't fire on his force of 200 because of its size as they approached from the west and made a right turn onto D115. Is it possible the Germans had already abandoned the position? We have the Bass account of German patrols passing near his position. It has long been known that one company of the Ost Battalion fought for awhile at Turqueville - and another account from the 82AB artillery units in position near Baudienville noted enemy forces to the north moving west towards Neuville.
Hi Guys, Caught for time tonight but here is a quick reply: Don, we have already confirmed 22Dot as being on the La Londe A6 ALG - see the 'Another Glider Tie-Up' thread for details. The other 'dot' I referred to this afternoon is in the tree felling clip here. It's airborne number is 6Dot and is resting on the port side wing tip rather that the starboard side wing tip we see in the 'Power Pole' stitch, so not the same glider. Also have a look at Hans's thread titled 'La Londe Glider' for a confirmed Horsa pilot who landed on the ALG site on D-Day (Elmira?). This guy went back in Wacos several times in June to the A6 strip - only looking at footage of Wacos coming in to land on the strip today! Regards, Pat
Hi All, In a further attempt to tie down post landing movement of Horsa gliders on the La Londe A6 ALG, I have extracted a view of the strip from the ever fruitful NCAP_ACIU_US7GR_1857_8010 flown on the 12th June: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk My suspect 'Bone Yard' for swept up gliders is the square area between the La Londe Farm Avenue and the intact hedgerow with the single Horsa circled red thereon. In an never ending effort to come up with place names for Don's amusement, I have dubbed the south east corner of this square 'Bone & Main' Going through my hard disk just now, I happened on a curious image which I found a few years back but until now could never find its location: I have absolutely no idea as to it's origins or who might now own the copyright but I suspect the image is from some kind of 'inner circle' airborne publication. If the copyright owner reads this, please let me know and I will watermark it correctly. The location should have been apparent to me from the start - Horsas, Wacos and single seat fighters - it can only be the La Londe A6 ALG. The standalone tree partially covered by the parachute wings is the key. The south east edge of our newly arrived NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1002 just about shows this tree. The Horsa circled red thereon is, I am pretty sure, one and the same as that which I have circled red on the extract above from NCAP_ACIU_US7GR_1857_8010. I suspect the Wacos are also there in frame 8010 but the light is not reflecting off the wings to the same extent as the wings of the Horsa. Note what appears to be a Horsa wreck which either landed at, or was bulldozed to 'Bone & Main' corner - perhaps from the possible Horsa wreckage marked on the zoomed extract from the low resolution proof of NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1001, currently under order from NCAP: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk ...or are there two separate Horsa wrecks at this corner? Hopefully all will be revealed by Friday Anyone able to tie the 'Eisenhower' aerial to the Critical Past stitches? Regards, Regards, Pat
More terrific work, Pat. I thought I had your naming convention figured out - was looking for this one to be "the corner of 'Walk' and 'Don't Walk'." Is that the La Londe house in the far background at 1:38 of this Critical Past segment? http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675068867_United-States-soldiers_get-haircut_take-shower_wrecked-Horsa-gliders_improvised-operations-tower
Hi Don, Unless you help me out I have to go with the first name that enters my head Yes, that's the farm roof line; you first see it at 00:49 to the immediate right of the sentry who is leaning back against the Horsa 'control tower'. Regards, Pat
Hi All, We finally have the high resolution copy of NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1001 flown on the 8th June. My thanks to John for sponsoring this frame which is now available for viewing via the 'Green Room' library. Below is a down sized version with the first four areas of interest which caught my eye marked by the blue, red, yellow and green rectangles: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk The blue rectangle is zoomed to below and shows what I take to be a Horsa crash site with a run in mark from the east: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk The cockpit is at the 10 o'clock position under the tree canopy if I am reading the scene correctly. The red rectangle shows another Horsa crash site just a few yards SE of 'Bone & Main' corner and appears to be the tidied up wreck we saw in the 'Eisenhower' image above: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk The small 'aircraft' like object at centre left appears to be a single seat fighter (a Spitfire?) ... or is it just a Horsa tail? I take the two areas of wreckage in the yellow rectangle to be from the same Horsa glider but again this may not be correct: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk Anyone make out this scene in the yellow rectangle differently? The green rectangle is not directly related to the subject of this thread but it has caught my eye. Can anyone make out the light toned vehicle parked on the grass margin?: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk Comments and corrections are, as always, welcomed and appreciated. Regards, Pat
Just another observation; I would wonder if the scene below shows the corner of 'Bone & Main' behind the cab of the scraper? It's definitively shot at La Londe A6 as can be seen by the 'Broken Comb' tree cluster down the hedge aways. If it is this corner, is the wing on the ground the same Horsa wing we see in the red extract from frame 1001 above? Regards, Pat
...and one more, The spider like feature seen in the same field as the blue extract is a dead tree, still standing: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk I found the same tree on some British Pathe footage shot from an orbiting spotter plane - see the still below: The Horsa in the foreground of this still does not appear in frame NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1001 but this still does show the corner of 'Bone & Main' at upper left with the 'Eisenhower' Horsa in the hedgerow just north of the corner. The tidied up Horsa wreckage at the corner can also be just about made out. Regards, Pat
Hi Pat and all, Here is my perspective on some of the rectangle images... The blue rectangle has the Horsa coming in from the east, but I think the port wing hit a tree or hedgerow and spun the horsa about 170 degrees to the left so that the cockpit is actually at the 4 o'clock position. I base this on the general sloping back of the leading edge that is part of the wing design on the wing that points to 1 o'clock, and what looks like an insignia on the port wing. There seems to be an area of this wing that points to 1 o'clock that also has a missing aileron on the western side of this wing. Also the wings curves into the body of the horsa on the eastern side more like it is the leading edge of the wing. This horsa may have hit this hedgerow while it was spinning to the left, with the right (starboard) wing first sliding between trees. Just my opinion. The red rectangle is see a starboard wing as the biggest piece of the wreck, and what I believe is a horsa tail in the field. In my opinion I don't see enough for there to be two wrecks in this area. I do see a number of parachutes at the Bone and main corner. I agree with you on the yellow rectangle that the wing is from the horsa under the tree. American insignia's were placed on top of the port wing and on the bottom of the starboard wing. I can see no insignia on this wing so I think the separated port wing lays upside down with its internal wing storage compartments open and empty. Notice how the wing stripes cannot be seen mid port wing. The green rectangle is interesting and I think it may be a german vehicle by the lighter tone of possibly a tan vehicle. To me it looks like it could be a Stug III or even a slighter possibility of a Marder. The smaller tan box behind or on top it throws me off and gives me some doubts though. Again these are just my opinions, so please feel free to agree or disagree. I like to view these images from different orientations without thinking north/south. As we did before with image 1002, I often look at frame 1001 rotated 180 degrees. Rotating the photo seems to help me when analyzing the aerials. John
Hi Pat, The 819 EAB's report says "At dusk on the eleventh (D+5) five gliders landed with ammunition and glider troops for the 82nd A/B Division." It doesn't say what flavor gliders were used, but this intact Horsa would probably be a good candidate. For reference, the report also says that construction began at 10 a.m. on June 8. I don't have a guess on your parked vehicle, but it does raise the question - where is the 819th's construction equipment: road graders, bulldozers, dump trucks, etc.? On the road, doesn't that look like field artillery towed by tractors? If so, why would they be heading south? Did any arty battalions land at Exit 3 or 4 and move south?
Hi Guys, The vehicle parked up in the yellow rectangle seems too narrow to a German SPG but Niels or Sean might be able to throw more light on it. There is a good possibility that it could be related to the construction of the ALG and so be American. As far as I know only Wacos were used in subsequent re-supply missions to La Londe A6 ALG. The Horsa in the foreground of the BP still above is outside the footprint of NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1001 in any event and I cannot find any other frames on the NCAP site which would cover the location in a post invasion date window. While looking through Philippe Esvelin's books for Dale last night, I found a ground photograph which might match the tidied up Horsa wreckage at the corner of Bone & Main. Will post it tonight. Regards, Pat
Hi Guys, This is the photo I am wondering about: It is taken from page 70 of 'Forgotten Wings' by Philippe Esvelin. If you look over the head of the GI down on his haunches at extreme left, the hedgerow seems to be running in a receding line behind him and the trees on the extreme right seem to be heading off at a right angle to the left hand hedgerow. Have we a corner behind the fuselage part of the wreckage? If so, is it Bone & Main? The whole setup gives me the impression that the wreckage has been bulldozed into a pile. Weak, but possible. Regards, Pat
Hi Pat, I was wondering if this is the same horsa from the Hoatson thread with the GI standing with his hands behind his back looking at the wreck, while the other GI's are walking by. Here is a link the that image http://normandy.whitebeamimages.ie/forum/thread-32-page-3.html It would be tough to match up but the general layout seems the same... what do you think? In that same youtube video, you can see the same horsa from the same angle at the 1:55 mark of the video. Here is that link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yr_6gNBpk8 John
Hi John, The wreck with the GI holding his hands behind his back is, I would think, shot from a road or laneway. The GIs passing give me a sense that they are on solid ground like a road surface; nothing to back this up with; it's just a feeling I have and I could be wrong Pat
With that extreme sun elevation, the photo was taken very close to high noon. Thus, the fuselage is aligned close to 0-180. From that, you can make your own guess about the orientation of the hedgerow behind. Are those GIs scrounging for building materials or hunting Easter Eggs? Is there a nearby Horsa in earlier images that lost its entire left wing and had its front section detached that might make a good candidate? Before I forget, Pat, that link I PM'd you recently has a good quality version of your Pond Field Annex Horsa - the one with the collapsed left wheel. If it hasn't already been noted, the glider has 'KANSAS' chalked onto the fuselage. Nobody from Bob Ballintine's 71st TCS roster from Kansas. No other clues. Wonder if the chalk number is on the other side?