Elmira Horsa Glider

Hi all,

Nice to have the high res. copy of NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1001. It does help to see things better.

In addition to the four items of interest identified in frame 1001 with colored rectangles on page 5 above, I would like to call attention to one other glider that seems to be interesting. Ignore the yellow arrow. The subject glider is just above the left side of the landing strip work:

A zoomed-in version from high res. 1001 shows pretty good detail.:





This appears to me to be a Horsa crash scene. I can't tell if it is a "cleaned up" scene or the actual result of a rough landing. It looks like there is a sort of track/scraping mark on the ground leading, perhaps, from where it first made contact with a hedgerow or tree, to where it finally came to rest. Invasion striping can easily be seen on the large portion of wreckage on the right, and on some smaller component on the left where initial impact may have occurred.​

Curiously, for some reason I do not seem to be able to see this wreckage in the much analysed Esvelin photo from page 60 of Forgotten Wings. See the excerpt from this photo below, at the red arrow. I guess it has either been cleaned up or maybe just doesn't show up well due to lighting, etc.:





I would be interested in any thoughts about this crash.


Charles

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Edit: Charles, I reduced the size of your centre image above from 1024x583 to 850x484 pixels, just to keep the page from spilling over on the right. Pat

 

I appreciate the comments on the above crash. (Sorry about the oversized photo; I'll check it more carefully next time.)

I guess the two white spots in the Esvelin photo are the glider crash we see in the high res version of 1001. The May 22nd photo certainly doesn't show anything else at the location where the glider landed. And its pretty much the same situation with regard to the apple orchard crash discussed earlier in this thread. The Esvelin photo has only the slightest hint of something out of place on the ground where that glider landed.

I'll keep looking.

Charles

 

I was going through the Kenny Knotts Brown album today and ran into an image that looked familiar. Just wondering if the following two photos are of the same Horsa protruding onto a dirt lane.

The first is from the Knotts album:

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In the Knotts photo we see what appears to be a power pole on the far right side of the frame, close to the photographer. The starboard wing is tucked in very closely to a tree. The Horsa is protruding about half-way out into the road. There is also what looks like a telephone pole on the starboard side of the glider that seems to be about 10 to 15 feet beyond the tree trunk. Obviously, the nose wheel has come off and is laying on the road.


The second is from the You Tube link that Pat cited on pg 3 of the Hoatson Horsa Wreck thread, at 2:32 of that video:

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In the Youtube frame, which was taken from the opposite direction, we can see a power pole on the left side that looks like it could be the same one in the Knotts photo, looks like about the same distance from the Horsa. Although there is not the up close view of the starboard wing next to the tree, it looks to me like it is very close. Again, the glider appears to be about half-way onto the road. It also looks like we can see the starboard side telephone pole sticking up just above the nose of the glider. Because of the jeep/truck, we can't really see the nose wheel, although it may have been removed from the road by the time the video was taken.

One thing a little puzzling is what looks like it may be another a telephone pole right behind the port wing in You Tube frame. While it is clear in that image, it is hard for me to make it out in the Knotts photo. The tree behind the glider may be making it difficult to pick out the pole. Perhaps it is behind the cockpit while looking straight into the tree in the Knotts photo.

Anyway, does it look like the same glider in the two different photos? If so, do we know the location of this Horsa?

Charles

 

Thanks, Pat, for the help with "Edna". I had heard of the pond field but did not know just where it was. Now I see. Appreciate the thorough clarification.

Charles

 

An interesting new look at the "bone yard" location. I did run into several other shots of the area. However, due to an even smaller scale, while the following screen-grab also show the A-6 ALG, and the newly found "Bone Yard West", it is only with difficulty that we can see gliders. The one image shown below is the best of three, making the others pretty useless. This screen shot came from the You Tube Photos Normandie site at video number f000155.

So, for the record, while it doesn't really add anything, here it is:





Charles

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Hi all,

New Frame 1002 glider?

I was looking at the high res. copy of NCAP_ACIU_US30-4108_1002 today and saw what I think is another glider that I at least, had not noticed before. I'm not sure if it is a Horsa or Waco right now. The glider appears to be substantially under a tree, the cockpit probably pointing at about one o'clock (if you could see it). If you view the high res. copy of 1002, you find that what I take to be the starboard wing is completely hidden under a tree, and that the port side wing near the fuselage is partially covered by tree limbs at both the fore and aft edges.

Anyway, John, I have copied a section of your map below and indicated what I take to be the location of this glider at the tip of the yellow arrow. From the 1002 photo, it looks like this was likely an orchard, and that the glider ran into a row of trees that is no longer there. See images below:

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Image of newly found glider on the standard resolution 1002 as indicated by yellow arrow.

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High resolution image of 1002, showing slightly closer view. At the rear of this aircraft, I am not sure if we see the rear stabilizer section of a CG4a, or the disconnected tail end of a Horsa that has been turned parallel with the wing. To some extent, tree limbs are obscuring the shape of the port side wing near the fuselage. Nevertheless, I'm betting that some of you will know which glider this is.

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Any thoughts?

Charles

 

Just testing you guys! (ha ha) :shy:

But seriously, thank you both for the insightful analysis. Although I was troubled by the small scale of the "new glider" myself, I guess I was paying more attention to the shape of the object. Another lesson learned, and a good one.

Back to the drawing board!

Charles

 

Hi all,

Ok, so I have recently obtained a significant amount of additional Army records pertaining to my father's service. Some of it is duplicative of what I already had, but most is not. Unfortunately, based on a quick review, while very interesting to me from a personal point of view, most of the additional records I have will probably add little to my efforts to locate his glider landing site. Nevertheless, I am going through it all very carefully. It will take some time.

One thing I am trying to do now is to approach the search for hints at what could be a landing site via a search for times and locations of medical attention and treatment given, during the period from the crash date of June 6th, until June 16th, when the record indicates that he was hospitalized in the UK. A consideration of medical records was suggested to me some time ago; see post #3 on Jan. 5th of this year.

Below, are two items that are new to me. They don't discuss any landing sites, but do refer to medical treatment or hospitalization.

The first is a form that my father completed and returned to the Adjutant General's Office regarding information needed in determining any retirement benefits:

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According to this form, medical treatment during the period June 6th through June 15th was provided at various field and evacuation hospitals. No surprise, but hopefully, a review of the additional records I now have, along with several reports I am trying to obtain from the Nat'l Archives, might shed some further light on this matter. I have also submitted a formal request to the Dept. of Veteran's Affairs for a copy of my father's VA File. I was told that it would take at least six months! Not sure what might be in that file, but no harm in trying to get it.



The next image is a portion of a Company Morning Report of the 82nd TCS dated the 28th of June, '44. Although this report is outside of the time frame on which I will be focusing, I am hoping that someone might be able to help clarify something:

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I am specifically referring to the report of a transfer to "Sk Abs. 6810 Hosp. Center, Atcham, Shrewsbury Shrops, APO 526, U.S. Army". Nowhere in any of the records my father brought home, nor in the additional records recently received (except for this Morning Report) is there any mention of the Atcham Hosp. Center. I tried researching it but was not very successful. It seems as though it might not have been too far from the border with Wales. Could this perhaps have been a stop on the way to the 83rd Gen. Hosp. in Wales? I found that there was a Chatam RAF airfield, which the U.S. Army operated during WW2, for flight training, and which could have provided a landing spot if my father was flown out of France. I notice that the report does not state a date on which this transfer took place, but it must have happened well before the report date of June 28.​

I really don't want to dwell on this minor item, but if anyone has some thoughts about it I would be glad to have them.

Back to the records review.

Charles