Elmira Horsa Glider

Thanks for the responses and referral. I have had the WW2 US Medical Research Center on my list of "favorites" for a good while now. I plan to contact that source for the "Atcham" question, and for other more germane matters.

Charles

 

Hi all,

A little update, which, while not really special, at least does continue to support the idea that the gliders of Serial 32, carrying a large number of 319th FA Bn, generally landed in an area about a mile or two northeast of Ste. Mere Eglise. Below is an excerpt from the "Historical Record 319th Glider FA Bn for June, 1944" that I recently received from NARA:

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The manifest for Serial 32 shows 40 of the 48 Horsa gliders carrying a substantial number of 319th GFAB personnel, which ties in with the above reported 40 gliders and 321 "enlisted men". The landing time reported of 2255 hrs. is consistent with the times stated in various accounts of this serial, that seem to vary 5 to 10 minutes or so around 2300 hrs. The departure time cited of 2137 hrs. is, I believe, incorrect and is likely a typing error. I think the reporter intended to show 2037 as departure time. Using a departure time of 2137 and landing time of 2255, would only allow 1 hr. and 18 mins. for the flight. It is also noted that in another section of this report (below), this serial is referred to again, and the departure time is shown as 2037 hrs.

The report also indicates landings "...about two miles north and east of Ste. Mere Eglise, France...". I am guessing that the "...5200 yards from the designated Landing Zone" is likely referring to LZ W, which was the initially scheduled area. As can be seen, the report also gives what I take to be some form of coordinates that identify the landing area vicinity where elements of the battalion initially gathered, and another location to which they moved in the early hours of June 7th. If anyone knows how these coordinates are to be interpreted, please let me know. The format is used often in the report, but I am totally unfamiliar with it.

Also from this report is a copy of the "Unit Journal" entries for June 6, 1944:

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Here again, I think we have a typographical error, in the first entry, which identifies the glider serial as "31". Serial 31 landed around 2120 hrs., and thus would have taken off around 1905 hrs. And, as far as I know, it did not carry any 319th GFAB personnel. None of the Elmira serials departed anywhere around 2120. Also, the June History for the 82nd TCS, cited in the first entry of this thread, indicates the departure time for serial 32 to have been 2037 hrs. I believe the writer meant to identify the serial as #32. Note the same landing vicinity coordinates in this item as stated in the above report excerpt.​

The entries in this Journal also give further detail as to the make-up of the officers and enlisted men transported.

So again, any thoughts on the landing coordinates would be appreciated.

Charles

 

Hi, John and Pat,

Thank you both for your input on my latest post here. As usual, each of you provide good information and direction, for which I am grateful.

Back to digging around!


Charles

 

Hi again,

A while ago, I ran across a map which purports to show the position of the 4th ID on the evening of D-day, and which also indicates the position of some German forces in the area. I remember that the pilot who flew with my father, and who was the one who gave the report of the crash landing, had mentioned..."German patrol passed. Stayed nearby all night." A review of the reports from the other 11 Horsa gliders in the 82nd TCS, reflects that 5 of them, which had landed NE or ENE of SME, also reported enemy activity nearby.

I tried an overlay of the map on GE to see what it might show. A somewhat zoomed in version of the map as used for the overlay follows:

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This is the result of the overlay:

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The "German strong point", as identified on the map legend, is shown to be located basically at the intersection of the D17 and D115, near the southeast corner of the familiar landing area depicted in Philippe Esvelin's Forgotten Wings, pg. 60. While the overlay attempt didn't come out as well as I had hoped, it may be reasonably accurate (if the map is in fact accurate). The overlay is fairly well grounded on three features: the N13/E46 coming NNW out of SME, the familiar hump of the D15 coming NE out of SME and the intersection of the D15 and D14 near Ravenoville at the NE corner of the frame.


A closer look, albeit without the map legend is here:






Does anyone have any thoughts as to the accuracy of the map? While it is not surprising to hear of enemy activity in the areas in which many of the gliders landed, it is interesting to me that the map's placement of the "German strong point" is so close to where I think a number of Serial 32 gliders likely landed.

Also, if anyone can point me to a better map for the subject area as of D-day evening, please do so.

Thanks!

Charles

Edited by Pat to reduce last image width to 850 pixels.

 

Thanks Pat,

for reminding me of posts 35 and 39. I had forgotten about them. It seems that the German setup shown in those posts is likely what the "German strong point" is referencing on the map.

Sorry about the oversized image. Actually I had reduced it to 800 pixels on PhotoBucket. However, I neglected to "save" the change. Got 2 out of 3! Oh well.......

Charles

 

Thanks for the heads-up Pat. I will certainly follow that thread.

Charles