Thanks Patrick; therefore we have nothing confirmed from ground research, so now we hope that Shimko's report coordinates are only slightly out :s This Waco, piloted by Lt. Rendelman and an unknown co-pilot, carrying T/Sgt Edward H. Shimko and his men is indeed turning into a real challenge The landing is described on page 142 of the book "Airborne Combat" by James E. Mrazek thus: I had a look at the third frame found in the NCAP search result, that of NCAP_ACIU_400_0212_4024 flown on the 12th June: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk I note some indication of trench works to the west of the reported coordinates. It may be nothing, but there does appear to be an object within the red circle. There is no way of telling at this resolution, but it is a tempting proposition. I was also very excited when I noted the mark in the uncut portion of the (hay?) field circled yellow - the setup looked a bit like the field with the two German soldiers below...: ...until I noticed that frame 4042 is the only frame from sortie 212 to show this mark. I take it to be a mark on the master print or original negative.:-/ The NCAP guys also sent me an email today which further dampened my spirits in relation to the search requested last night for the Pommeret Wood Waco piloted by F/Os Loving and Kiel, some sixty odd miles to the west of Shimko's Waco: Still, at least they were good enough to inform me of a negative search result without charging the search fee I doubt if there is any point to extending the search date window beyond February 1945. It's very doubtful if the Allies photographed the area after this date when it was by then several hundreds of miles behind the lines. Sean, thanks for the suggestion on tracking down British unit records. I have none on the units you mention but I am sure they are available if we dig deep enough. Comments and corrections welcomed and appreciated. Regards, Pat
Pat If this is a quote from a book it's nothing more than a copy and paste from Shimko's testimony! The name of the pilot is also strange.. In his testimony shimko give two other names and that they were sent back to england at Bernieres sur Mer.
I checked my files for Rendelman, and found only one. A 87th TCS glider pilot. And he is stated to have flown Normandy, S. France and Holland. So not being captured, nor being taken to Buchenwald (usually US Air Force officers ended up at Stalag Luft I. Or another Stalag Luft) Also did see the name spelled as Randelman. Will ask around for more information. @ Patrick. Which names are given by Shimko? Hans
"I believe the tug pilot was captain Douglas. The glider pilot was Schuller. The co-pilot was John H. Hampton, APO133." Don't find their names, just a Schiller in the 80th TCS
Hi Patrick, Thanks for that bit. Hampton (81st TCS) was killed during the Rhine mission. Schiller passed away in 1999. I checked Martin Wolfe's "Green Light". He writes about the Elmira mission. More intersting is this: "Sixteen of our 81st TCS GPs who had not flown on D-ay were detached to fly June 7 with other squadrons in operation Galvaston, which flew the 325th GIR to an LZ near Ste.-Mere-Eglise." Probably all known, but for me it is just starting of with this. It is well possible that these GPs on detachment service were put together, making the pilots of the glider from different squadrons. Hans
Hi Guys, Yes Patrick, the quote is directly from the book. A further quote from pages 141-142: A quick check on the load manifest for the first echelon of Mission 'Galveston' out of Ramsbury on the morning of the 7th June appears to confirm Waco #43-39730 as being the Rendelman/Shimko glider - 'Far Flung' by 60 miles: The serial number probably refers to the damaged Waco and not the spare which eventually made it to France. I wonder if the brown dot on the 82nd Airborne glider map on page 1 / post #8 of this thread marked thereon, inland from Pointe du Hoc, is intended to be an "optimistic" representation of where the Rendelman/Shimko Waco landed :dodgy: Regards, Pat
Hi All, Regarding the Pommeret Wood location for F/O Kiel and Loving, I had some new encouraging email from NCAP today: Mmm...so there is cover over the Pommeret Wood between February and August 1945. I think I'll go ahead and purchase the search report :dodgy: Hopefully the 1945 cover is early in the spring before the leaf canopy has come out. Regards, Pat
Pat The tables are not a load manifest.. they are statistics tables made after d-day with the information collected. It is possible that the serial number was the one from the waco used by shimko. it's possible... not sure! I don't know what you are calling "optimistic". It's just impossible that the glider landed here.. It was near Bieville-Beuville.
I know Patrick, it was my attempt at mild Irish sarcasm I think the guys who drew up the map were probably too embarrassed to put the marker at the correct location near Bieville-Beuville. I find it very odd that Colonel Donald French, the Deputy Group Commander of the 437th TCG (other sources has him as the C.O.) would tow a glider so far off course and not know that mission 'Galveston' was supposed to be heading for LZ O initially, then LZ E - 60 miles to his west in any event. Strange...:dodgy: Regards, Pat
RE: Germans With Crashed Waco Pat There are also Escape Evasion reports for Larkin, Kostiak, Laird and Lauri
Pat (and guys) Is it possible that they (Col. French) follwed a group of British? I know that during Market Garden British and US got mingled up a few times. And thus dropping or landing in the incorrect zone. So if Col. French spotted a British serial, he followed them to Caen instead to fly all alone over the the Ste.-Mere-Eglise area. Just a thought. Hans
Hello there, Any opinions on the following would be appreciated..... Turns out I have a photo of the Bieville-Beuville area in my files that I got some years ago. It's not as high a resolution as we're now used to. It doesn't cover the exact co-ordinates given by Shimko, just a little farther north. I've ringed in red the same location in an extract from the trial image of frame NCAP_ACIU_400_0212_4024. First image was taken 24th June and appears to show what could be an aircraft of some sort: The same area taken on 12th June doesn't seem to have anything definite but there is maybe something there? Or is it wishful thinking? Or what about inside the green ring? Is there something similar there? Why move it though?... Worth a closer look at higher resolution??? Cheers, Sean
Hello Here is a part of Shimko's testimony which is important I think [attachment=11] Trenches and underground living quarters ??? Perhaps we must see them on the aerial no?
Hello Pat, Yes, I thought of that. Can't see any sign of it in the immediate vicinity. But what's "immediate vicinity"?? Then again, the more I look at it, the less likely it seems to be what we're looking for..................... Sean
Hi All, Hans, yes, I think that scenario is likely to be what happened; they followed a British group instead of their own guys, but what an error :exclamation: Sean, I am not sure about your object in the extract from your NCAP_ACIU_400_0283_4075 flown on the 24th June. I think it certainly looks like the longitudinal wingspan of a glider but the resolution is just not there to be certain. Below is a GE locator screenshot for your frame: I would certainly take the location of your object (circled blue above) to be now well within our 'expanded' AoI due to the apparent error in the report coordinates. The said coordinates are shown by the red cross hairs in the former orchard above. Note how the longitude line is running very close to your object I wonder if only the latitude was reported in error due perhaps to the flat, featureless nature of the fields in this area :idea: Below is a map from page 295 of "The Struggle for Europe" by Chester Wilmot (1952 edition) - one of the very best overview books on Normandy IMHO: Note how our AoI straddles the front line during the twelve day interval between the two aerial reconnaissance photographs, NCAP_ACIU_400_0212_4024 and NCAP_ACIU_400_0283_4075. There has been major vehicle movement over the ground during the interval, so your object may well be related to this. In any event, there are enough questions to warrant ordering a full resolution version of at least one or other of the two aerials. I have proceeded to order a 1200dpi copy of NCAP_ACIU_400_0212_4024 tonight so as to be sure the orchard whose coordinates are in T/Sgt Shimko's report, does not hide the Waco we seek. Patrick, the story behind the escape of F/O James Larkin and his co-pilot, F/O Kostiak (Glider 4 on Philippe Esvelin's western Cotentin map) is described in Philippe's book, "Forgotten Wings" in some detail, as indeed are the other seven Wacos on his map. Apparently there is a connection between Auguste Lebariller, one of the Frenchmen who helped the two pilots, and others, to escape back to the American lines, and a tragic story of rape and murder carried out by two American GI's from a rear echelon unit (1511th Engineer Water Company) on the 1st August 1944. Auguste Lebariller was shot and killed by one of the two GIs. Both were hanged for his murder and the rape of a young French girl in the same incident. I would like to return to the western Cotentin Wacos when we have reached some conclusion regarding T/Sgt Shimko's glider. I would like to get a look at the Escape/Evasion Reports you mention; can you send me a copy please if you have them or the source if not? Thanks Patrick. Regards, Pat
Hi Pat Or, perhaps, when he made his report, he misidentified the two roads which are close to the landing spot (and heading in the same direction) ?? PS : reports sent to your email.
Hi Patrick, Good observation; that might well be the reason for the error. I appreciate the copy of the reports which I will pick up when I get home this evening. Regards, Pat
Hi All, The high resolution copy of NCAP_ACIU_2TAF_400_0212_4024 has come down from Edinburgh today. Below is a downsized version suitable for posting here on the Forum: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk ...and below the GE finder chart with the coordinates from T/Sgt Shimko's report marked thereon: The quality of the high resolution copy is not the best by any means and I can see no conclusive sign of the Waco which brought T/Sgt Shimko and his men to Normandy. The one possibility I have seen so far is not at my 80% certainty level, but members with 'Advanced Researcher' status can check the high resolution version to see if they can find any other candidates thereon. My 'possible' is located at the centre of the red rectangle at bottom right on the down sized version above and zoomed to below: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk ...and an inverted version: Image Credit: RCAHMS/ www.aerial.rcahms.gov.ukIf the object is the sought after Waco, the nose seems to be hidden by the crop growing in the field, though I cannot think of any such crop which might have reached this height in June :huh: I have seen the invasion stripes on glider wings 'flaring' like this into two single reflections before, especially where the quality of the master print is not great, as in this case. The tail fin at the 2 o'clock position seems to be casting a dark shadow in accordance with the direction of other shadows. The two horizontal stabilizers also seem to be showing as one would expect. ...not sure though :dodgy: Comments and corrections welcomed and appreciated. Regards, Pat
Hi Pat, These are just my personal opinions, but just some of my own quick observations are that the scale of this object seems too small to be a glider when compared with trees, road widths, homes, etc. I just get the impression that a glider would be twice this objects size. Also the light reflection angle seems to be off. With the sun to the East (right) in this photo, most of the houses and farms above this object with a somewhat easterly facing roof seem to be reflecting lighter. It just doesnt seem to fit the manner in which this object lays on the ground with a nose buried down at 8 o'clock, and tail up at 2 o'clock. Also with the low sun, even smaller trees and objects are casting obvious lengthy shadows. With a tail up, I would think we would see more of a casted and obvious shadow. Just some of my observations. Respectfully, John Szweda Would it be crazy to think this could be a Spitfire if its a plane at all?
Hi John, Yes, it is a weak candidate. My 'rough and ready' attempt below at scaling the object was hindered by the fact that the area is now built up hugely since 1944 but I did manage to find two hedges which are still present today. Depending on how much faith you put in Google Earth's measurement tool, I get about 120 ft between them along the laneway: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk The object seems to have a 'wingspan' of about ΒΌ this distance or about 30 feet. If my measurements are somewhat correct, this does indeed rule out the wingspan of a Waco at 83ft 8inches. A Spitfire, depending on the variant, had a wingspan of 36-40ft and hence would fit very well with your theory. Regards, Pat