Hi Pat, I think you are correct that it is a Waco, and that I mislabeled it on the map. But the good news is that the CA-1 bulldozer was designed to fit into a Waco glider. Here is a photo: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=bulldozer+in+glider&view=detailv2&&id=EBE0138C7201522ADB3B1CEDF09E100A6C3B02F5&selectedIndex=0&ccid=sUJsf10%2f&simid=608022019870820453&thid=OIP.Mb1426c7f5d3f23d5d7d9916dec7d63b1o0&ajaxhist=0 John
You know something... ...its not beyond the bounds of possibility that the glider is showing on 1947 IGN cover :dodgy: There is certainly something there throwing back extra light Regards, Pat
Pat, In my opinion, I think we are looking for a Waco. The story reads that the glider had a bulldozer and one crewman. Given that some Waco gliders carried in the dozers, and that a Horsa would have the ability to carry a larger load (in either men or equipment) than just a dozer, I'd suggest it was a Waco. John
Yes, it looks like it John. Glyn, from your first post, can you confirm time and date at which the glider landed? Also, I am not sure if this is a candidate, but can anyone confirm the complete serial number here. I am getting 43-198_5_ Thanks, Pat
Pat, In a slightly better resolution photo I see it as 319885. Comparing it with other Waco glider serial number lengths, I don't think there is a digit after the 5. John
Morning All, I don't have the 82nd glider tables to hand, so can you guys check same for John's reading of the serial number please? IIRC, the dozer was to be used to clear LZ 'E' glider poles for later glider missions. Regards, Pat
Hi all Firstly I am sorry for not being on for a couple of days and replying to posts. I have been bogged down at work. Secondly I am amazed at how you guys all work together on here, very professional and a pleasure to absorb the info that has been posted. I have not got an exact time in Thomas Shanley`s report any books of what time the glider came in. But working it out myself from when he dropped to when he set up his first defensive position, the glider has to have landed between 03:50 to 04:10 on the morning of 6th June. It can not be any other time frame because he would not have been in this position for it to land almost directly on top of them either side of that time frame. I hope this helps. I cant contribute much as I am way out of my area of expertise when it comes to planes and gliders but it is a pleasure to be able to see you all piece this together and bring history alive for not only the C47 crew and Glider pilot, but also for the 82nd Airborne 508th PIR that would have walked through the gliders fuselage and fought around this area. [hr] Just worked my times out again by going further into the defensive positions set up around the hill. The glider has got to have come in onto their position at 03:50 approx plus or minus 5 minutes. That's as exact as I can be.
I have been in touch with Patrick Elie. He has told me he has no information on the Glider at all. But he has given me the names of the Glider crew. I thought it was just Robert J Kile but here is the other name Richard Delagarza. He also gave me this info on the crew of the C47........... There are photographs of the crash site and a MACR established. Howard was killed during a German ambush just after the crash-landing. Kuhn was killed the next day during a strafing of the POW convoy by a P-47. Beckley and Boetcher ended as POW. hope this helps??
Am I safe to say that the glider in question is the one carrying the small Bulldozer and with the right crew?. Also are we correct in assuming that this glider was flown in by the C47 that crashed. I really want to draw a line under this one. I know we would all like dicumented proof on this one but it seems as though nothing is available.
Hi All, For those following along, the MACR is 5658 for Howard's C-47 (serial # 43-15101) that crashed. The location of that crash was just east of the D70 and just north of the Chateau de L'Isle Marie along the Merderet river. South of Hill 30 as well. This puts Howard's C-47 some 9000 feet south southeast of the location where we spotted the Waco glider just southwest of Gueutteville as described in post #4 of this thread and as seen in aerials posted by Pat. Even thought the MACR witness accounts seen Howard's C-47 veer well to the right while on fire before crashing, would it have gone 9000 feet in its condition? Is the Gueutteville glider the correct Waco? Glyn, I suspect it is the correct Waco, and the fields do seem to line up with the crude sketch from the "Affair on Hill 30" report. The difficult thing is that not all the documentation is available... We don't have a serial number for the Kile Waco towed by Howard, or its load manifest. We also don't have a serial number for the one we can see in the aerial, or a confirmed ground photo of the Waco. Going further we don't even have access to ALL aerial recon photos of the area. We all would like to know, but sometimes history hangs on to its secrets. John
Thanks for your reply John. I am not going to make ant presumptions in my write up of this area. I will stick with what is written down already. I want to thank you all who have commented and pawed through your material to try and help me out in nailing down this glider. One day the proof via documents and photos may show up and we can all finish things that we all have in the back burner.
I have just found this website with some info and photos that I think is relevant. please advise if this is correct. If they are test fitting it into this glider before DDay then it could be the glider used for the operation???. http://www.questmasters.us/Clark_CA-1_No_2.html