Horsa Crash at SME Hospice Wall

Discussion in 'Troop Carrier & Glider' started by Pat Curran, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. jms1055

    jms1055 Guest
    Guest

    Thanks.
     
  2. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Hans,

    I just assumed that with Wacos being lighter, they would tow faster than Horsas and hence would need to be positioned at the front.

    Everything fits the description for 'HG-897' in the Serial 33 table below...
    [​IMG]
    ...glider destroyed, 2 KIA, 1 evacuated, a jeep and trailer fully serviceable; all consistent with a hard frontal impact with little damage to the fuselage.

    John, I was looking for the new high angle photo of the glider taken from the Hospice upper floor. Where have we it do you recall?

    Thanks,

    Pat
     
  3. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Pat,
    I believe we identified it on facebook for Hans and his National WWII Glider Pilot Association page.
    I found it there.

    John
     
  4. marketc47

    marketc47 Active Member
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    Feb 15, 2013
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    John,

    The primary task was to provide the information to Warren Miller's son. His father was killed on the Rhine mission.
     
  5. jms1055

    jms1055 Guest
    Guest

    Can your provide a link to the page or photo? I've been unable to find on Facebook. joan
     
  6. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Joan,

    Here is the ground shot, originally identified by John, with the Hospice/Aid Station behind the camera. It is taken from p. 171 of Michel de Trez's 'Sainte Mere Eglise - Photographs of D-Day':

    [​IMG]
    The photo I referred to above is from roughly the same angle, but shot from an upstairs window in the Hospice.

    I cannot locate it either John :blush:

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  7. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Niels,

    FB searching drives me demented ;)

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  9. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
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    You do know you can save posts on FB, right?

    BTW, I do wonder what all the construction materials on the photo were to be used for (unless they are post invasion, haven't checked other photos ). There was a presence of OT firms in SME and the wider area around it.....
     
  10. jms1055

    jms1055 Guest
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    Thanks. joan
     
  11. jms1055

    jms1055 Guest
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    Hi Pat, I was curious to know if the above table was compiled by a forum member or is there an available source for the information? thanks, joan
     
  12. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
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    That table is a period document. It can be found online at a number of places. Am sure one of our members is able to provide a link or upload the document itself.
     
  13. jms1055

    jms1055 Guest
    Guest

    Thank you. I've been searching online with no luck so far, so a link would be helpful and appreciated. joan
     
  14. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Joan,
    Pat might be able to put a link up for a nice quality version of the table...

    Pat,
    One thing I just thought of, is if this Horsa had a jeep and trailer on board, why did they not remove the tail? I doubt they may have taken it out the heavily damaged front with all the debris.
    Even in the aerial photo taken on 6-8-44 US30 /4108 frame 1064, the tail still appears to be attached.

    John
     
  15. jms1055

    jms1055 Guest
    Guest

    Sorry if this is too simple of a question, but were the gliders loaded from the front? With severe damage to the glider, could the equipment have been too heavily damaged to use? Not sure how well it would have been secured. My dad never talked about details of the crash, other than the glider going down and being pulled out. joan
     
  16. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Joan,

    I have scans from the parent document showing all the 82nd Airborne glider missions for Normandy. These scans I inserted into two PDFs, one for Horsa serials and one for the Wacos.They can be downloaded from these two links which are good for the next couple of days:

    Transcribing the tables into something like a html table would require a bit of time and care as some entries are not that clear...I'll put the job on the 'to do' list :D

    John, the only reason I can think of for not unloading via the tail is that the jeep and trailer formed part of the wreckage, having been displaced forward when the impact occurred. Neither appear in any of the known ground photos showing the wreckage in the field, so it is indeed a mystery.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  17. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Hi Joan,
    Waco gliders had a hinged front nose of the glider and that is how waco gliders were loaded and unloaded.
    But Horsa gliders did not have a removable, or hinged front nose. Horsa glider were generally loaded from the front left side of the glider where a very wide door was located. Troops would wheel a jeep, gun, or trailer, up a ramp and then physically have to turn the item once they got inside the doorway.
    Once on the ground the tail of the Horsa was removable and the item would be wheeled out the back of the glider down two narrow ramps.

    John
     

    Attached Files:

  18. jms1055

    jms1055 Guest
    Guest

    Thank you!
     
  19. jms1055

    jms1055 Guest
    Guest

    Hi, I've just been reviewing photos of the horsa crash at the hospice wall at SME, posted here and on Facebook, and from several of the books mentioned in the threads. You all do a remarkable job of identifying the various gliders from aerial photos and films.

    My dad carried the photo of the glider he was in, the one that crashed at the hospice wall at SME, with him for many years. I had always thought his photo was of the back end of the glider, and that it had crashed into the wall while approaching the hospice, from the outside of the hospice yard. After looking at other photos of the same glider, however, it finally sank in that the glider crashed inside the hospice yard. So the photo that I have shows what remains of the cockpit. And, I assume, that the glider flew over the hospice or very nearly over it before it crashed into the wall. How amazing were the pilot and co-pilot, to be able to avoid crashing into the hospice building itself and be able save most of the crew (my dad included)? Thanks for all your help, joan
     
  20. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
    17
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Joan,

    We are only delighted to help with research like this.

    Thanks for posting your photo.

    Regards,

    Pat
     

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