Horsa Loading Manifest

Discussion in 'British & Commonwealth' started by Jim Fuller, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. Jim Fuller

    Jim Fuller Member
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    Dec 4, 2019
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    Pat
    Copies of names at the same hospital as my brother c June/july 1944

    9 Other Postcards – all undated

    Hopital de la Croix Saint Simon (18, rue de la Croix-Saint-Simon, Paris (20e)e

    Six of these are blank. All display scenes of the Hospital run by Nuns.

    3 of this set have various addresses ,written by separate writers, swopping addresses:

    Groupement de Jeuness (filles)

    Mathew Davies, Riverhill Rd, Monorgahela,(might be PV) Penns.

    Kenneth L Hickerson, 2727 Teleplaphy Ave., Oakland, California.

    Roland Simard, 329 ?, Cord Street, Montreal, ?, Canada.

    Fred W Kintner, 94 Endicott Ave, Johnson City, NY

    Madeleine Andrieux, 125 Ru dAvron, Paris 20 p

    Jane Andrieux, 225 Rue d Avon, Paris, XXp

    Elizabeth Focerut, 17 Av de lo Notte, ? (poss Belgium)

    Marrinette - (with no address)

    Mr J Anderson, 40 Spring Guscien (or Gascien), Aberdeen, Scotland

    Le Ray Brown, Weir, Kansas 9 RRI

    Johnny G Greg , RT ♯2,Canras(or Cannas)Texas.

    Could it be that the female names were nuns at the hospital?

    Source: Postcards from Flossy Fuller, Geoff’s wife
     
  2. Jim Fuller

    Jim Fuller Member
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  3. Jim Fuller

    Jim Fuller Member
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    Pat, the history of Chalk 66 is so fascinating that I must thank you for all that you are doing.
    It does seem likely that Ian Fife, war correspondent of the Daily Mirror, is buried in the same Cemetary as the pilot of the glider, S/Sgt Vic Ockwell.
    Words cannot be properly expressed —many thanks.
     
  4. Sean

    Sean Active Member
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    Oct 24, 2012
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    Happy New Year to you and all.
    There are unknowns beside Ockwell but they're sailors. Of those in the civilian cemeteries, none have enough information to suggest they might be Ian Fyfe.
    From CWGC:

    Ockwell.jpg

    I'll go through the other records to see if there are any other nearby.

    Cheers

    Sean
     
  5. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Thanks Sean,

    I had checked that document in the hope that it might have made reference to an initial burial site before S/Sgt Ockwell was re-buried in Ste. Marie Cemetery, but no luck.

    Also checked out the extensive footage shot at RAF Harwell on the 5th June to see if there is any sign of either Ian Fyfe of Chalk #66, but I haven't spotted a candidate for either....


    Regards,

    Pat
     
  6. Jim Fuller

    Jim Fuller Member
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    Of course, they are War Memorial graves — not for civilians as Ian was.
    Jim
     
  7. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Jim,

    I got your PM tonight but got side tracked by a piece of German footage which I have found, which might be the stray Horsa in the aerial I referred to above. The theory needs a lot more work, but I am considering ordering down a high resolution frame from the Childress sortie to have a closer look.

    There are three different angles of ground footage shot by the German cameraman - have a look at it here on the BP site (Film ID 2103.08) . Its the Horsa with the torn away left wing but not the one where the Germans are unloading the jeep.

    No indication its Chalk 66 but you never know...

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi All,

    I have placed an order with NCAP for a 1200dpi copy of Frame 4022, Sortie US7GR 1746 flown on the 6th June 1944.

    What with the current situation, I don't expect we'll see it until January but at least its in train.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  9. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    OK,

    Here is what I have been working on...

    Firstly, having paid the license fee to NCAP for the use of Frame 4022, sortie US7GR 1746, but still awaiting delivery, I feel somewhat entitled to post this low res extract from from their website:
    [​IMG]
    Before I post the stills from the German ground footage of what I believe to be the same glider, I want to set out the ground we're looking at here; most especially the slope northwards on the field which holds the glider wreck. Below is an extract from present day IGN mapping - note the line of the power cables running on the north side of hedgerow marked B above...
    [​IMG]
    The contours underneath the power cables indicate a valley situated between the glider field and the wooded high ground to the north, The field slopes down towards this valley as can be seen from the Google Maps street view shown below. Note how the base of the shrubs on hedgerow B are below our line of sight in this view...
    [​IMG]
    Right, now lets look at the stills from the German ground footage...
     
  10. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,556
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Firstly,

    The extract from frame 4022 again...
    [​IMG]
    Now lets look at still #35 from the German ground footage...
    [​IMG]
    Note how the aerial view shows the field divided along a straight line between the two blue arrows - I think this a line of anti-glider poles with wire strung between them. The wire probably prevents livestock moving from one side to the other. I am pretty sure at least 3 of the poles are visible in the ground footage still, together with some indication of the half hidden hedgerow B and the wooded high ground in the background to the north.

    Still #34 shows, I believe, the slope going downhill along hedgerow A towards the valley...
    [​IMG]
    The only issue I have with the whole thing is the fact that in the (low resolution) aerial extract, the tail section appears to be attached to the fuselage, while in still #34 of the ground footage, it is obviously detached. This is not a big issue in my view and we have seen examples of different photos of the same glider in the American LZs which show similar anomalies. It is likely the Germans removed the tail section if the glider carried an intact jeep or other cargo they wanted to extract. It may be of course we will see the tail detached when the high resolution version comes down from NCAP.

    Of no real addition, but here is another still from the German footage which I am pretty sure shows a closeup of the port side wing stub...
    [​IMG]
    I include still #53 just to extract it from the cocktail of the German ground footage showing at least two other Horsas in the British airborne sector.

    However, in the context of Jim's initial query, I believe there is a better candidate not far away...
     
  11. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,556
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    Before I move on to a better candidate for Chalk #66, I just wanted to acknowledge work pertinent to the above glider on the WW2 Talk Forum here which I only discovered last night.

    It looks like they had this glider identified as Chalk #84 until one of the members found a zoomable photo here and it now look like its Chalk #77 from the serial number LH 494. In any event we can safely rule it out as Chalk #66; the subject of our hunt.

    They also found a photo of the glider on a Spanish auction site here - note the Germans milling around the front section of the fuselage. Most probably a still photo shot at the scene at the same time as the German footage which brought it to my attention. The Germans hadn't quite managed to open the cargo door in between the still and the footage however!

    Well done WW2 Talk!

    Regards,

    Pat
     

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