MSG John McCarthy’s Road to Lecaudey Farm (Part II)

Discussion in 'American' started by Pat Curran, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    In an attempt to further narrow the area of interest for the landing site of MSgt John McCarthy’s Mission ‘Keokuk’ Horsa, this thread is being opened to facilitate further research into the quest.

    Regular viewers of the work already done to date will recall the description of the landing being one of two closely sited landing locations for Horsas marked No. 3 and No. 4. Number 4, that which carried MSgt John McCarthy, appears to have landed relatively intact while No. 3 was a complete wreck as described by one account:

    Work to date suggests one possible landing field might be that which is due south of the field where Brigadier General Pratt was killed earlier on the morning of the 6th June. The field in question is centred in the extract below from reconnaissance photograph NCAP_US7_1857_4052 flown on the 12th June:

    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    In a slightly closer look at the western hedgerow, an intact(ish) Horsa is clearly visible with…

    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    …what appears to be wreckage almost obscured in the evening shadows to the immediate south as indicated thereon. Note the present day location of the Pratt Memorial marked ‘P’.

    OK, so that’s about where we are at the moment on this one possible location. I stress this is one possible landing site and it could easily be found to be incorrect upon further research. On that basis, let’s see how much further we can take this quest.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  2. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Hi Pat,
    I remember this topic before, and I have no reason to doubt that the glider isnt at the one you labled "second horsa?", but this just kind of dawned on me... of the 32 Horsas in mission 'Keokuk' did anybody try to make a head count of 32 Horsas (whole and partial) in the area?
    Also is there a view of Pratts Waco?

    Respectfully,
    John Szweda
     
  3. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi John,

    Kevin McCarthy is going to re-post his ground work here just to keep things in sync before we attempt to move the ball forward. He has also deduced that two heretofore unseen reconnaissance photographs cover the AoI. When we checked with NCAP last week, asking for a low resolution proof of...
    • NCAP_US30_4079_1073 (06 JUN 44)
    • NCAP_US30_4108_2072 (08 JUN 44)
    ...we received one of the two sought; frame 1073 from sortie 4079 on the 6th June. Members of the Advanced Researcher Group can view that frame by going to the appropriate section of the forum. I will post a down-sized version here following Kevin's next post.

    The frame has extensive cloud cover (as most D-Day photos do) but Lady Luck is on our side this time as both the field which is the current focus for the landing site and what I term the Pratt Field are both visible.

    Always sceptical of low resolution proofs, it does appear that for the first time (at least to me), we might be going to get a good look at the northern face of the southern hedgerow of Pratt Field. Frame 1073 is far more directly overhead that any of the frames we have seen to date and the cloudy weather has prevented deep shadows from obscuring the view.

    The hunt for Brigadier General Pratt's Waco wreckage really needs a thread of it's own but my understanding is that the Waco hit this northern face at the bend in the said hedgerow. IIRC, Philippe Esvelin marked the spot on a pre-invasion aerial in one of his books.

    I am the process of ordering a full resolution version of NCAP_US30_4079_1073.

    As to a head count of 'Keokuk' Horsas, Kevin is working to obtain permission to post a map here from "Rendezvous with Destiny" which should help towards tracking down a high percentage of the 32 gliders.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  4. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Pat,
    I am glad Kevin McCarthy is going to re-post his ground work. In fact it might be nice to do that for other subjects as well. I also agree any General Pratt discussion should be in a seperate thread.
    I look forward to the results of whats uncovered.

    John
     
  5. kgm

    kgm Active Member
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    Oct 26, 2012
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    #5 kgm, Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    All.

    As Pat mentioned above, before we move forward with Part II of this research effort, I want to re-post this summary of the analysis of my site visit to the Hiesville, France area completed in May of this year. For those readers that are new to this story, here is a quick summary of what transpired prior to the site survey:

    In early April of this year, I began finalizing my plans for a trip to Normandy with the intent of attempting to retrace the D-Day path of my deceased father, MSGT John T. McCarthy, 101st Airborne Division (DIV HQ CO, G-1). My research efforts started with a phone call to my father’s 101st Airborne Division friend and author, George Koskimaki. In the late 1960’s, my father description of his Keokuk Mission glider flight/landing and his first night in Normandy was included in Koskimaki’s book, “D-Day with the Screaming Eagles”. During an Internet search, I stumbled upon Paul Woodadge’s D-Day Historian website and the Battlebus Forum. At Paul’s suggestion, I contacted Pat and provided him with a summary of my father’s D-Day information that was included in Koskimaki’s book. In a period of two short weeks before my trip to France, Pat completed an outstanding analysis of NCAP photographs of the Hiesville area and found two possible landing sites for my father’s glider. Based on Pat’s research, Paul Woodadge and I completed a site survey of those two sites in early May. The following post, which originally appeared on the Battlebus Forum on May 28, 2012, is a summary of my analysis of that site survey:

    ***************
    (Beginning of the original Battlebus Post)

    On the morning of May 6th of this year, joined by Paul Woodadge, I completed a site survey of the two current most probable landing sites for gliders # 3 and 4 of the Keokuk Mission. One of those sites was in the NE corner of Pratt Field (identified as Landing Site B (LS B) in this discussion) and the other was on the western edge of the field south of the Pratt Memorial (identified as Landing Site A (LS A)).

    Due to deep mud at the western entrance to Pratt Field, access to LS B was impractical. However, access to LS A was possible and we entered the field south of the Pratt Memorial at the gate entrance in the SW corner. After taking photos/video of LS A, I walked and took photos/video along Path A enroute to Lecaudey Farm, stopping at Farms A-1 and A-2. The day prior (May 5th), while with an Overlord Tours group, I took photos/video of Path B on Route de l’Eglise as well as Farm B. The tour guide identified Farm B as part of the former Hiesville Presbyter. See overview aerial shot below.

    Overview1.jpg
    This Google Earth shot provides an overview of the two landing sites in the Hiesville area. Information associated with LS A is annotated in red, while LS B information is annotated in blue. The red and blue arrows pointing at “LS A” and “LS B” approximate the landing rollout tracks of gliders # 3 and 4.


    In this post I want to conduct an analysis of both possible landing sites and discuss my conclusion, based on the data points summarized below, that LS A is the most probable site. Sources of the data points include:
    -My father’s inputs to George Koskimaki’s book “D-Day with the Screaming Eagles” (JM)
    -Inputs by other contributors to George Koskimaki’s book D-Day with the Screaming Eagles (DDSE)
    -My phone conversations with Mr. Koskimaki (GK)
    -Inputs from Paul Woodadge during our site survey (PW)
    -My observations from the site survey (KM)

    Summary of data points with respective sources:
    -Gliders # 3 and 4 of the Keokuk Mission landed in close proximity to each other in a field within one mile of Hiesville. (JM)
    -Glider # 3 came to rest with its nose embedded in a hedgerow. The cockpit suffered significant damage, resulting in the death of the co-pilot and injury to the pilot. (JM)
    -Glider # 4 landed approximately twenty yards from a hedgerow, with glider # 3 “just in front” of glider # 4. (JM)
    -Glider # 4 contained the jeep of the Division Chief of Staff, Colonel Gerald Higgins. (JM) The tail of the Horsa glider would have been blown off to remove this jeep.
    -Gliders # 3 and 4 came to rest near a hedgerow that was in close proximity to a hard-surfaced road with an associated deep ditch. (JM)
    -My father encountered and hid from a German patrol somewhere along the path from the landing site to the farmyard where he hid on the night of June 6th. (JM)
    -Small German armored vehicles and troops were present along Path A near the current site of the Pratt Memorial during the early morning hours of June 6, 1944. (DDSE)
    -German troops were present in Vierville until the evening of June 7th. (PW)
    -On the evening of June 6th, German troops were shooting at the landing site of gliders # 3 and 4 from a hedgerow corner of the field. (JM)
    -The most likely location of the source of the German shooting into the LS A field was the SE corner, the corner closest to Vierville. (PW)
    -The LS A field has only two gated entrances, one in the NE corner and one in the SW corner. The rest of the field is surrounded by hedgerows. (KM)
    -German snipers were present in the immediate vicinity of Hiesville on June 6th and 7th. (GK)
    -Elements of Batteries A and B of the 81st Anti-Aircraft Battalion and 3rd Battalion 501st PIR were responsible for maintaining security outposts around the Division CP in Hiesville. (GK)
    -On the morning of June 7th, sometime after his arrival at Lecaudey Farm, my father mentioned to George Koskimaki that glider # 4 had landed somewhere to the west of Hiesville. (GK)


    Landing Site B Discussion

    The NCAP_4052 aerial photograph clearly indicates two Horsa gliders in the NE corner of Pratt Field in a configuration very close what my father described in Koskimaki’s book. In fact, based on just what can be seen in NCAP_4052, LS B probably better fits his description than LS A. (Only one Horsa can be clearly seen at LS A, with a hint of second Horsa mostly hidden in the shadow of a hedgerow.) However, I believe the other data points do not support LS B as the most likely site. First of all, while LS B is in close proximuty to a hedgerow, there is no nearby “hard-surfaced road” or deep ditch associated with the landing site hedgerow as described by my father. The nearest roads are approximately 1000 feet from LS B. Second, as discussed early-on in this thread, LS B and especially Farm B are too close to Hiesville to fit with the overnight journey described by my father. Farm B is on the western edge of Hiesville and the gate entrance to the barnyard is less than 800 feet from the entrance of Lecaudey Farm based on measurements taken from a Google Earth shot. Farm B does have a “shadowy hedgerow” with a shallow ditch near a barn building. (See photo below.) However, in a photo I took on Route de l’Eglise at the entrance of Farm B, looking to the east towards the center of Hiesville, you can clearly see buildings at the Hiesville crossroads. Also in a photo I took from the NW corner of the barnyard, you can see the Hiesville church steeple. I realize that in the dark of the night, this would not have been visible to my father. However, I think that it is likely his group would have made contact with American troops manning outposts on the edge of town. Also, American forces had been present in Hiesville since earlier in the day on June 6th. According to Mr. Koskimkai, there were German snipers in Hiesville on the evening/night of June 6th. However, I have to question if a German patrol would be on Route de l’Eglise to the west of Hiesville on the evening of June 6th. In comparison with the LS A scenario, a German patrol would have been much more likely in the vicinity of LS A which was closer to the German outpost in Vierville. Finally, realizing that road elevations do change over the course of 68 years, I just did not see the prevalence of deep ditches described by my father along Path B that I observed along Path A. Based on these discussion points, I think LS B can be discounted as the landing site for gliders # 3 and 4.


    Landing Site B Scenario Photographs

    Path B 1.jpg
    Photo taken from a location due north of LS B on Route de l’Eglise, at the point where “Path B” joins a hard-surfaced road and turns sharply to the east towards Hiesville. Photo looks to the south at the tree line associated with the hedgerow where in this scenario gliders # 3 and 4 came to rest. This spot is the closest that any current hard-surfaced road comes to LS B on the path to Hiesville.



    Farm B Overview 1.jpg
    This Google Earth shot provides an overview of Farm B and the short distance to Lecaudey Farm.


    Farm B 1 copy1.jpg
    Photo taken from the gate entrance to Farm B, looking west/northwest on Route de l’Eglise/Path B towards LS B.




    Farm B 2 copy1.jpg
    Photo taken on Route de l’Eglise at the gate entrance to Farm B looking east towards Hiesville. Building in the distance just past the curve in the road is located just to the west of the Hiesville crossroads.


    Farm B 3 copy1.jpg
    Photo taken from the NW corner of the barnyard of Farm B, looking to the east towards the Hiesville church steeple.




    Farm B 4 copy1.jpg
    Photo taken from the NW corner of the barnyard of Farm B looking south towards the gate entrance on Route de l’Eglise. To the right (west) is a shallow ditch near a hedgerow. To the left (east) and just out of the camera field of view is the barn structure seen in the photo above.



    Farm B Overview 2.jpg
    Google Earth shot taken from the intersection of roads at the center of Hiesville, looking to the west down Route de l’Eglise towards the entrance of Farm B.


    Farm B Overview 3.jpg
    Google Earth shot taken from the same spot as the photo above, looking to the NE towards the entrance of Lecaudey Farm.



    Landing Site A Discussion

    In the field south of the Pratt Memorial, the NCAP_4052 aerial shot indicates what appears to be only a single Horsa with the tail blown off (most likely glider # 4 in this scenario) near a hedgerow on the western side of the field. Despite there being only a hint of a second glider hidden in the shadow of the hedgerow (glider # 3), I believe that a LS A scenario is the more likely of the two possibilities when you consider the other date points that are available. First of all, LS A is in close proximity to a hedgerow associated with a hard-surfaced road and deep ditches. This is not the case with LS B where the nearest hard-surfaced road is approximately 1000 feet away. Second, the distance from LS A to Lecaudey Farm via Path A is approximately one mile. The distance from LS B to Lecaudey Farm via Path B is about one half mile. The one-mile distance associated with LS A seems to be a better fit with the story of my father’s overnight journey. The entrances to Farms A-1 and A-2 are located at least 500 feet further away from the Division CP than the entrance to Farm B. This additional distance would have made it less likely that my father’s group would have encountered an American outpost on the edge of Hiesville prior to finding the farm where they decided to spend the night. Finally, I believe that the German patrol activity that my father encountered was more likely along Path A than Path B based on the proximity of the route to Vierville. Based on the data points summarized above, I would like to outline one possible version of my father’s landing and journey to the Division CP.

    Gliders # 3 and 4 touched down in the SE corner of the field south of the Pratt Memorial as outlined by Pat Curran in one of his earlier posts. The landing rollout of these two gliders continued on a track of approximately 290 degrees true towards the western edge of the field. Glider # 3 eventually impacted the hedgerow. This impact caused the glider to break-up, and as Paul Woodadge suggested during our site survey, resulted in a portion of the hedgerow being pushed out into what is now Route D-129. This created a “kink” in the straight line of the hedgerow that is still present today. This damage to the hedgerow also created a convenient exit route from the field. (The nearest gate entrance to LS A is in the SW corner of the field. I doubt the group would have gone south, away from Hiesville, to utilize this exit. The other gate entrance is in the NE corner of the field, which would have required a trip across the German field of fire to gain access.) After exiting the gliders, the Americans began to take fire from the Germans, most likely positioned somewhere in the SE corner of the field. Utilizing the break in the hedgerow created by glider # 3, my father’s group exited the field and went north in the ditch along D-129. At the intersection with Route de Rabey (current site of the Pratt Memorial), they turned to the east. It is probably somewhere in this general area that they encountered the German patrol. Also along this path, they went past the hedgerow where General Pratt’s glider had crashed that morning. Continuing along Path A, they reached Farms A-1 and A-2. Both of these farms have barnyards with easy access to the road along with shadowy hedgerows and shallow ditches. My father’s group could have spent the night in either of these barnyards. The next morning the group then continued north another quarter mile on Path A to the Lecaudey Farm. Sometime that morning my father briefly spoke George Koskimaki in the Division CP.


    Landing Site A Scenario Photographs


    LS A 1 copy1.jpg
    Spot where glider # 4 came to rest in LS A looking NW towards the hedgerow on the western edge of the field. Route D-129 is on the other side of the hedgerow.



    LS A 2.jpg
    Looking to the SE from the glider # 4 location back down the landing rollout track towards the point of touchdown.



    LS A 3 copy1.jpg
    Area where glider # 3 possibly hit the hedgerow creating the “kink” and exit route that pushes out into Route D-129. Note the depressions in the ground along the fence line.



    LS A 4 copy1.jpg
    Paul Woodadge surveying the glider # 3 “kink” in the hedgerow from the LS A field. The hedgerow is at least 20 feet thick at this point.



    LS A 5 copy1.jpg
    Looking south on D-129 towards the “kink” in the hedgerow.




    LS A 6 copy1.jpg
    Another view of the “kink” and the ditch alongside D-129.



    Farms A Overview.jpg
    A Google Earth overview of Farms A-1 and A-2.



    Farm A1 1.jpg
    Looking southwest from Route de Rabey to the entrance of Farm A-1.



    Farm A2 1 copy1.jpg
    Looking east from Route de Rabey into the barnyard of Farm A-2.



    Farm A2 2 copy1.jpg
    Looking north on Route de Rabey from the entrance of Farm A-2 towards Hiesville.

    Conclusion

    Based on Pat Curran’s photo analysis, there are currently only two possible landing sites worthy of consideration. When you consider the totality of the evidence presented in this analysis; including data regarding the landing sites, the potential paths to the Division CP, the distances between the landing sites/farms/Division CP, the farms themselves, as well as the limited information available about the disposition of the American and German forces; I believe that of the two sites considered, LS A is the most likely landing site for gliders # 3 and 4 of the Keokuk Mission.

    Again, my thanks to George Koskimaki, Paul Woodadge and Pat Curran for their assistance with this research project.

    (End of the original Battlebus Post)
    ***************

    As Pat discussed in one of his posts above, the field south of the Pratt Memorial is one possible landing site for my father's glider. With Pat’s posting of NCAP_US30_4079_1073 that will soon follow, I look forward to this renewed research effort that could confirm my analysis above or point in a different direction.

    Regards,
    Kevin
     
  6. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi All,

    Below is the low resolution proof of NCAP_US30_4079_1073 flown on the afternoon of the 6th June:

    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    ...and the GE finder chart:

    [​IMG]

    I have marked the field which is the subject of our current theory 'M' and the larger field across the laneway to the immediate north 'P'. It is my understanding that Brigadier General Pratt's Waco crashed in this field 'P'. I also note with interest part of the Lecaudey Farm outbuildings visible at the extreme eastern edge of the frame. There is bound to be some sign of activity at that location in the high resolution version currently on order from NCAP.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  7. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi All,

    The full resolution copy of NCAP_ACIU_US30_4079_1073 has come down from Edinburgh. As suspected, the low cloud and mist have degraded the quality and clarity to some degree when compared with the tack sharp frame 4052 taken six days later on the 12th June during US7GP's sortie 1857:

    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    However, not withstanding the poor 'seeing' conditions, I would be quite confident that there are two empty parking spaces awaiting at least one, now more likely two, of the thirty two Horsa gliders from Mission 'Keokuk' six hours after this photograph was taken.

    The empty space is obvious in the enlargement of the red rectangle marked above and zoomed to below:

    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    Circled yellow is the exact spot where we are seeing possible glider wreckage six days later on frame 4052.

    Does this bring us closer to finding the landing site of MSG John McCarthy? I believe it adds weight to the consideration that this location has a hidden Horsa wreck on frame 4052 as seen on the 12th June and in so doing adds considerably to this site being a much stronger contender than it has been heretofore. Beyond that I cannot say...yet!

    My thanks to the staff of NCAP for their diligence in getting this order processed over the holiday period. I also would like to express my appreciation to Kevin for the financial support which he afforded the Forum in purchasing this photograph.

    Comments and corrections welcomed and appreciated.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  8. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi All,

    Kevin has asked me to post some extracts from the two aerials showing the north end of Pratt Field and the glider presence there constituting his 'Option B' site referenced above.

    The first screenshot below is from NCAP_ACIU_US30_4079_1073 flown during mid afternoon of the 6th June:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    ...and the same scene six days later in an extract from NCAP_ACIU_US7GR_1857_4052 flown in the late afternoon of the 12th June:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    Note the Waco has been moved to the north hedgerow. On the 'Brigadier General Pratt's Waco Crash Site' thread, I have speculated that perhaps the field was cleared to the margins to allow further landings. This might account for the movement of the Waco and the Horsa with a missing tail section. Further speculation on my part; perhaps the Germans observed this clean up and decided to put a stop to it by lopping over a shell which appears to have landed quite close to this glider cluster.

    Well, it is New Year's night and I need some more brandy...:D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  9. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi All,

    Kevin has asked about the Horsas in the Pond Field on the Brigadier General Pratt's Waco Crash Site thread at this post.

    The only clear indication I can find to date on the identification of any Horsa in this field follows a bit of playing around with the well know starboard side view of 'Edna' in Photoshop. Here is the result:

    [​IMG]

    Looks like '16' (and 'Edna'?) ;)

    In my new English version of Philippe Esvelin's "Forgotten Wings" there is a complete list of Pilots and Co-Pilots for Mission Keokuk shown on page 172 (this list is not in the French version). Bearing in mind Patrick's caution regarding the linking of airborne numbers to chalk numbers, I see that the crew of #16 is listed as F/O Alexander Rawlins T-121274 (Pilot) and F/O Eugene Ragsdale T-121377 (Co-Pilot). Neither man is among the forty four glider pilots KIA in Normandy as shown on page 80 of the same book.

    BTW, if anyone from the Advanced Researcher Group would like to have my French version of "Forgotten Wings", please send me a PM.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  10. firstflabn

    firstflabn Active Member
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    Dec 18, 2012
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    Nice job, Pat. That freehand lettering style is different from other Horsa missions that we can ID from UK ground photos. Unfortunately, I don't know of any other potential Keokuk Horsas with similar lettering. If Bob Ballintine makes it to NARA sometime, I have on the wish list for him to take a look at image of the Aldermaston Horsas prepped for takeoff in hopes some markings might be visible.

    Chalk #16 would fit with my overall Keokuk theory that the front half of the right element of Keokuk (#3, 4, 7, 8, 11, 12, 15, 16) released somewhere in the neighborhood of the Pond Field.

    On a related point, I answered Kevin's earlier question about the Warren AFHRA study from memory. Having checked the footnote, it appears I may have been at least half right. For the description of the Keokuk landing locations the footnote cites 3 pgs in RwD - the first of which contains the landing map - plus the 434th OPREP. Pat Elie's treasure trove of reports does not present this report. I presume the report is at NARA and AFHRA. No way to know, but I suppose it is plausible that the OPREP contains an overlay of the landing locations - and thus could be the original source of the later versions of the map. The report narrative could contain just about anything.

    As previously discussed, with Horsas from other missions landing in LZ 'E,' there had to be some way of determining which Horsas belonged to Keokuk. My hope has always been to find documentation clearly stating whether the map represented release spots or landing locations. Recall that in the MACR for HG-915 (Chalk #5), the tug pilot reported his release point as about 300 yards west of les Houches. And thanks to Pat Elie for plotting the overlay on a copy of the Bigot map. Recall also my theory that Chalk #5 is the lone Horsa just NE of the Big Dipper Group (based on the damaged right wing). If Keokuk released from flight formation of four across (about which we're not sure), then presumably they obeyed the directive (also shown on Pat Elie's site) of a 2000' spacing between the left and right elements (pairs). If you buy all of that, then the Pond Field and Big Dipper Field start to make sense - at least in general.

    Pat, did you inform Bob B. about this site? Haven't heard from him in awhile.
     
  11. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi Don,

    The '16' looks different sure enough and I am also mildly concerned about the fact that it is so difficult to read. I wonder if it has been blanked out for another number? Unlikely, but possible.

    I am trying to figure a way of getting all these photographs of gliders which show numbers in some sort of order, with some way of categorising them to their mission. In a rare tie, I found a photograph on Fold3 today while looking for the Gammon grenade damaged C-47 which can be confirmed as a Mission 'Hackensack' photo. To keep things tidy, I'll open a new thread for this and others like it.

    There are a number of people I need to contact regarding the new forum including the Ballintines. I'll do a mail shot during the week from my address book.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  12. kgm

    kgm Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 26, 2012
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    I’m going to stray a bit off topic for a moment, but I think it is appropriate.

    In Part I of this thread on the Battlebus Forum, a few postings discussed T/5 Charles H. Laden. Laden was a member of the 101st Airborne Division Signal Company and a friend of George Koskimaki and my father. I was privileged to meet Mr. Laden numerous times early in my life as he lived just a couple of miles from our home.

    T/5 Laden’s WWII story is well documented on the ww2airborne.com website at: http://www.ww2airborne.com/charlesladenpage1.htm

    Based on my research and conversations with George Koskimaki, I believe T/5 Laden arrived in Normandy on D-Day in Chalk #8 of the Keokuk Mission. His landing is described below:

    “When we did finally touch the ground, we continued to skid at a very high rate of speed. Evidently the smooth Norman grass in the fields was too slick to slow us down. We crashed through a hedgerow at the edge of one field and the wings of the glider were torn off. We continued to slide until finally crashing into another hedgerow that stopped us. Unfortunately due to the impact, we were torn up pretty bad. The pilot and co-pilot were both ejected, killing one of them. Also killed were a few guys from my company, Pfc. Raymond Demonge, T/5 Robert McCullum, and T/5 William Weber. Both the motorcycles ended up hanging in the trees, and the trailer and other equipment was tossed everywhere. Staff Sergeant Harrison who had been sitting in the tail section was alive, but wounded badly. I was also thrown from the wreckage, but miraculously I was fine, except for bumps and bruises on my right leg. I brushed myself off and then helped Harrison out of the wreckage and into a ditch at the side of the field for cover. A few minutes later a jeep from our signals company drove up and the driver told me to get in. I was then driven to General Taylor’s command post that he had established at a farmhouse in Hiesville." (Source: ww2airborne.com)

    If you recall, Pat posted a photo of a similar Horsa crash site on the Battlebus Forum as part of this discussion.

    Last summer, during one of our phone conversations, George Koskimaki mentioned to me that Charles Laden was still alive and that they had recently talked on the phone. Unfortunately, Mr. Koskimaki did not have any contact information for Mr. Laden. That pushed me to start an Internet search for Mr. Laden that had been unsuccessful until this weekend when I found his recently posted on-line obituary. T/5 Charles H. Laden passed away in Riverside, California on December 31, 2012 at the age of 101. His laid to rest in the National Cemetery in Riverside on January 11, 2013.

    Of note, T/5 Laden (33 years old at the time and one of the oldest enlisted men in the Division) served as General McAuliffe’s radio operator during the Market Garden Operation. Laden arrived in Holland in a Waco glider (Chalk #1 of the lift) with the General, several MPs and a war correspondent on D+1, September 18, 1944. (Source: Koskimaki’s Hell’s Highway.)

    This “war correspondent” was not Walter Cronkite as erroneously reported by several sources. Ken McAuliffe (on the Trigger Time Forum) and George Koskimaki (during one of our phone conversations) confirmed that this was the case. In fact, Cronkite arrived in Holland on D-Day (September 17, 1944) in the same Waco glider as my father. My father reported this to his sister in a letter sent shortly after the Market Garden Operation. He also swore that he would never fly in a glider again because he never wanted to experience another glider landing. Several sources describe Cronkite’s glider landing as “hard” or that the glider “flipped and broke up”. Clearly validating my father’s concerns, Cronkite’s most detailed description states: “I thought the wheels of the glider were for landing. Imagine my surprise when we skidded along the ground and the wheels came up through the floor.”

    T/5 Charles Laden’s death marks the passing of another member of the “Greatest Generation”. May he rest in peace.

    R/Kevin
     
  13. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Kevin,

    Interesting story on Keokuk #8. I am not sure which photograph you are referring to from the Battlebus forum - is it the Tonelli Auction one below?

    [​IMG]

    The starboard wing is obviously gone and I can see skylight at the top of the port side wing stub just at the top of the high resolution version of the photograph. However '36' is four too many for Mission Keokuk and I have a feeling that this field is in 82nd territory; why I don't know, it's just a feeling.

    If this is not the photograph you have in mind, try Googleing for images using the phrase "normandy.whitebeamimages.ie" (with quotation marks).

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  14. kgm

    kgm Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 26, 2012
    75
    2
    #14 kgm, Feb 9, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
    List,

    In June of 1944, somewhere in Normandy, my father picked up this copy of an Allied appeal to German troops in the Cotentin that they surrender. With my limited German language ability, I can translate the basics such as the promises of good food, hospital care and the ability to send letters home for those that surrender. However, I can’t go much beyond that.

    Last year, on my behalf, Pat posted this on the Battlebus Forum. At the time, members of that Forum quickly provided an English translation as well as a bit of history about similar documents found in Normandy. Unfortunately, I did not save a copy of this information prior to the crash of Battlebus. I would like to repost this document again on this Forum for the benefit of new readers and with the hope that someone can repost the translation and/or other related information.


    flyer front copy.jpg



    flyer back copy.jpg

    I appreciate the assistance.

    R/Kevin
     
  15. patelie

    patelie Active Member
    Researcher

    Pat
    Yes, Ragsdale and Rawlins are listed among the recipients of the air medal (GO #33 IX TCC, 5 july 1944) without the note saying they are missing or KIA
     
  16. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Patrick,

    #16 'Edna' may not be their Horsa but it looks like whoever crewed it did survive the landing - no damage to the cockpit.

    BTW, I found two great albums of 82nd Photos in the Kenny I. Knotts Collection on the US Army Heritage and Education Center site:


    He captured a shot of 'Edna' along with several other glider wrecks and other sights during his travels. Some fantastic photographs and hours of fun ahead :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
    Corey Meyer likes this.
  17. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
    6
    @ Kevin, I think I still have my translation somewhere on my HD. Will look for it. If I can't find it I'll post a new translatation.

    @ Pat, one of those albums appears to have a shot of the La Fière Panzer III.
     
  18. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Niels,

    I have opened a new thread for that photo...just for you ;)

    I presume you found that other photo also...the one we don't talk about in public :sleepy:

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  19. patelie

    patelie Active Member
    Researcher

    @Don : there is nothing in the 434th OPREP. The two usual pages with the number of A/C and gliders dispatched, troops and equipment carried.. nothing else. below is paragraph A:
    Short narrative of operation : serial departed base as scheduled. an uneventful trip to LZ. no gun fire or flak encountered either way. result of drop believed good. Return from LZ uneventful. One ship landed for refueling. Reached base alright.

    @Pat : Kenny I. Knotts was in 307th A/B Med. Co. they were carried into Normandy by the 438th TCG. Mission Elmira serial #31. Great albums with, for me, a special mention for the Brown :)
     
  20. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,547
    11
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Pages 15-16/41 by any chance :angel:

    We can discuss in the Advanced Researchers section. I will post a watermarked version tonight.

    Regards,

    Pat
     

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